Hey guys, I just typed this up as a new article for vgnz.com, and thought it may interest some of the fine people over here.


Anyone remember the good old days of gaming where many of the most successful games were developed in a hobbyists garage? Best selling game development author Andre' LaMothe sure does. After spending a good many years teaching people about game development, he has made the switch to hardware and has announced a new gaming console, the 'XGameStation'. Whilst the name really could use a lot of work in my opinion, the theory behind it is more than interesting! Unlike any other console to date, the XGS is aimed at people interested in game development, packaged with apparently everything you will need to create your own games, really being akin to a development kit than an actual console. The online community will be the icing on the cake for many hobbyists as the official site will allow users to swap idea’s, software or even hardware modifications. Looking at the underground ‘hardcore’ scene of modders and hackers, as well as people interested in game development, I would say that there could indeed be enough of a potential market for the system.

The XGS comes with a built in BASIC language and supports PS2 controllers and PS/2 keyboards enabling testing and developing to be possible in the same environment. Applications are stored on flash memory cartridges allowing users to swap files between computers and the console, so developers are free to use traditional C++ compilers and tools.


Sure sounds an interesting concept huh?


Edit - Link to the official site is here since it didn't carry across from the story ;)

http://www.xgamestation.com/

Ugh. Another console? I think I've already seen a dozen of those this century. I doubt this one (much like all the other up-and-comers) will amount to much. Everyone has these great ideas about how they will be unique or different.

The thing about this console is that it sounds like he wants something for the hobbyist, not for people targeting actual customers. I've got one...the PC! Yeah, a console is great because it gives you a fixed platform to target, but if you aren't really targeting customers with your game, compatability probably isn't much of a concern anyway (what will happen, are you gonna lose a sale?).

Either I completely missed the point, or LaMothe hasn't really thought this through.

I don't get it either. If the unit is targetted at developers, is there a customer in there somewhere? Or is the idea to just make games for the fun of it and show your other game developer buddies?

This is taking retrogaming just a little far. Back to cartridges and Atari joysticks?!?

EDIT - After going through the website, it looks like he's basically trying to teach electronics and hardware, he's just doing it through a game console. It's an educational toy, in the "Build your own radio" sense.

I can't see this taking off.

I mean with software like multimedia fusion and BASIC engines like DarkBASIC and Blitz3d it faily easy for your average joe to put together a game on the pc.

*yawn*... whats so great about it? - I agree with LordKronos here - the PC has been doing this for ages..

If you want a true retro console for developers, go get a GP32 http://www.gamepark.com. It's got some nice amateur support (I've even ported one of my PC games over) and should be getting a European and American release sometime soon.

This is quite cool. According to the webbie it's only going to be $99, and it hasn't really got much competition in terms of educational stuff around gaming hardware and software. I don't the PC covers the same ground half as nicely, and the GP32 isn't really designed to be pulled apart.

I think it's a nice product, I hope it does well. If they sell them over here, I could see myself getting one for fun :)


The XGameStation is a kit. Originally, Andre' LaMothe wanted to write a book on hardware design, and what cooler way to teach it than by developing your own video game system? The XGameStation kit comes with the XGameStation console itself, an eBook on CD that starts from the basics digital engineering and takes you all the way through building your own video game system and writing games for it.

Originally posted by Wozza
[...]he has made the switch to hardware and has announced a new gaming console, the 'XGameStation'. Whilst the name really could use a lot of work in my opinion[...]
Well... it has the X from XBox, Game from the GameCube, and Station from PlayStation :)

I miss the ZX Spectrum times...

It's a hobbyist kit, like Siebharinn said. It happens to come pre-assembled, but it's meant to be pulled apart, modified, and even you can build one yourself. At least that's the aim of the ebook that comes with it. It's supposed to be simple enough that you should be able to understand everything in there.

As far as the software side, it's also meant to be an api-less platform. That is you're programming to almost the bare metal, although you'll be able to use their version of c or basic.

It's all pretty much about education, if you've ever wanted to know what it takes to actually build a console (i'll admit i'd often thought about it) now you'll be able to since it's going to provide you with the tools to do so.

Of course this won't be for everyone, if you're not interested in hobbyist electronics kits, then you probably won't be interested in it.

I've been giving some serious thought to picking up the PS2 Linux dev kit. Anyone here actually mess with that?

It'd be cool to get MAME games on it.

I like the idea that people will have to do low level programming because I think that has more educational value than learning DirectX.

Originally posted by Chandler
It'd be cool to get MAME games on it.

I like the idea that people will have to do low level programming because I think that has more educational value than learning DirectX.

I'm not even commenting on this game station thing.... LaMothe... brrr

Anyway, what is the advantage of learning hardware programming for ONE hardware chip? If you ever move target platform, you will always need to relearn the HW all over again. And if you are aiming the PC, learn every graphical card out there. I'm not sure about you, but programming each video card to perform their best in DOS wasn't fun at all. Maybe you like self mutilation, but it isn't for me.

I'm not even commenting on this game station thing.... LaMothe... brrr
LOL
I don't see why make such a thing, really.
You develop a game with it ok. It is a crap game, and then you spend 8 hours making it. If you find cool, ok :P
But if you want to make a cool game, maybe several week of programming, then what you do? sell it? yeah, maybe getting 10$! :P

it's much more interesting getting dev kits for actual consoles.

I would have been so into this about 16 years ago...

My personal thoughts on it:

1. This is a great educational toy!
Although there is some software that makes PCs easier to program (ex: BlitzBasic) -- they are still pretty complicated. Something that reduces the programming back to the level of an Atari 800 or C64 is really cool. On a simple enough machine, you can access hardware directly -- and thus have a much better understanding of what's going on. A problem with using an Atari 800 or C64 as a learning tool is the lack of good software to do the development with. Since this includes a C compiler and operates on your PC it ought to be a good setup.

Aside: I remember working with my boss to make a development system for the Atari 7800 and then the original NES. But the PCs we were using to edit and compile were still 80286's, the cross-assembler was painfully slow, etc.

I would definitely purchase it for any child interested in programming.

As far as adult learning uses -- depending on the setup this might be a good combo of programming ease + cheapness to use as a robot "brain". If you accidentally miss-wire something and fry one it's a lot cheaper than frying a good PC.

2. In terms of selling the software you write to make money, I would think that all it would take is an emulator to run the games on a PC and you'd be all set. Probably any PC targeted by the shareware people on this board would also be capable of running an XGameStation emulator.

The system certainly seems like it would be capable of Bejewelled, Snood, Dweep, etc. -- games that do sell in today's market.

In that sense, with the addition of an emulator that runs on the PC this whole thing actually just turns into a $99 game programming library that is hopefully very simple and straightforward to use.

I personally believe that that is the eventual "real" target.

Especially since Andre' LaMothe is very familiar with the PC gaming world. That's where he seems (based on his large number of books, etc) to be making his income.

What he's now invented is a way to package a game development library for the GNU compiler and sell it for $99 by packaging it with some hardware.

Somehow this makes me think of how (forgive me if my memory is garbled) the patent for the password protection in UNIX is described as a mechanical machine with a note at the end of the patent that says that this process could also be implemented in software.

The XGameStation hardware could never materialize and yet the concept would still be usable if he created a standard library.

Although I could buy something like Torque for $100, I personally would be much more likely to be able to learn to use something simpler and 2D.

3. The XGameStation hardware plugs into a TV. I think it's fun for anyone who programs to be able to put their stuff on TV. It somehow just seems more "real" that way.

There's something about lying down on the floor in front of the TV to play games that sitting in a chair 12 inches from my monitor just can't compare to.

I can run an emulator on the PC to show off the NES games I worked on (two of them have my photo hidden in them) -- but it's much more impressive when I plug a real NES into the TV.

Although I could be wrong, I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. When your game is on a TV, it is just more impressive.

I really hoped that some time after the PS2 became successful, SONY would have come up with something to allow anyone to publish games for the PS1. Publishing for the PS1 must really be a dead business for SONY by now, but allowing everyone to publish for it would really allow an enormous burst of creativity from individual programmers around the world and really revive it as a platform.


So overall -- I really like it. It seems like it would be a fun toy and yet with the addition of an emulator it would suddenly be a nifty tool for programming games to sell.

99 bucks for this? sorry but getting a low end pc is a much better value. you can get a budget pc (2.2ghz celeron) for $350.

if i was a beginner programmer, i'd still choose the pc over the xstation because the skills learned will be much more useful. what's the point of programming for a 20mhz anitquated processor?

this is one of the more ridiculous ideas i've heard in some time.


however..since we're being nostalgic and reminisicing about old cpu's, i kinda miss the dos days. mode13h/modex. 320x200 8 bit.
for most 2d games, this is sufficient. sadly, not all video cards guarantee support of mode13h nor does directdraw so at minimum, you have to use 640x480x8 which requires 5x more video bandwidth than good ole mode13h.

This is a great educational toy!
Educational??
Learn something that will never get you anywhere isn't so educational... :D
You learn C, but then you learn a lot of things that don't work with Pc games or other consoles... so don't really think it is so educational...!!
The system certainly seems like it would be capable of Bejewelled, Snood, Dweep, etc. -- games that do sell in today's market
Yes, but since it already exist for Pc, why make a port to that console? :P
Anyway, a port would be interesting only if enough people buy it, and I don't mean developers, but normal users.
And I don't think this is gonna happen, really...
There's something about lying down on the floor in front of the TV to play games that sitting in a chair 12 inches from my monitor just can't compare to.
eheh yes, I understand what you're saying. Well just buy one of those graphics card who have TV-Out :D

So overall -- I really like it. It seems like it would be a fun toy and yet with the addition of an emulator it would suddenly be a nifty tool for programming games to sell.
I believe that would be a fun TOY to use, expecially for nostalgic people. But I - really - don't think you can make a profit out of it.

The thing will never be a $99 programming library.

LaMothe could have written the Torque engine if he wanted to. I really think he's about taking areas of knowledge that are not widly known and making them more accessible.

When there were no decent 3D game programming books out there, he did that. Now the information widly available on the web is just as good as the steady stream of books lining your local grocery store's shelves.


The XGameStation project is about *hardware* hacking and system design, not software. He shows you how to design, build, and test a basic hardware platform.

You do not *need* to know any of this to make Dweep. However, the students who pick this thing up and experiment with it are likely to be better prepared for a career at the next nVidia, Nintendo, or Atari.


The system is not designed to compete commercially. It's capable of little more than a Super Nintendo. I think someone's marketing department got out of control and started doing some crazy things with this. Andre was trying to make a hardware design book, not sell pre-assembled $99 units.

Ah now I understand :)

well... this thing is really OFF-TOPIC here then.

Originally posted by mg_mchenry

LaMothe could have written the Torque engine if he wanted to. I really think he's about taking areas of knowledge that are not widly known and making them more accessible.


yeah right...

Originally posted by Akura
yeah right...

<flashback>
It was the summer of 1993. Andre LaMothe, on vacation in Scotland, was driving down a winding road without a care in the world. Unable to decide what side of the road to drive on, cuts off another driver, causing that other driver to spill his coffee. Little did Andre know that at that moment the other driver was AKURA! So began their war...
</flashback>
:)

Seriously, did he do something to tick you off?

93.. I was 10, lived in portugal... no doesnt seem to be a valid flashback :)

Anyway, misha has his reasons, who knows me knows they are valid and not the general piss taking from earsay on gamedev forums

hehe I don't like much him too...

Do you remember when he posted in those forum preteding to be a common user, and suggesting to use his publishing services to sell online?? :D

man, that was really a bad move...

im going to buy it, i dont care if it gets me anywhere but i loved that era of gaming, i felt like ive missed something by starting at the directx c++ level.. i wanna take a step back and mess around with some oldschool stuff:D

I'd have considered buying it, if I hadn't read that it used a Motorola 68HCS12. I wrote a multi-tasking OS in assembly language on one of those back in my undergrad years as a part of my senior project. Umm... thanks, but no thanks. I did it once because I had to. Not because I thought it was a good time. And this (http://www.xgamestation.com/view_media.php?id=4) looks pretty close to my senior project. This (http://www.xgamestation.com/view_media.php?id=7) is a bit scary as well. Haven't they heard of PSpice or any of the other tools for designing circuit boards?

Definately doesn't seem like it was meant for people serious about developing games. It could be a good started kit for kids who are interested and want to see what it's like I suppose, but the whole thing looks pretty haphazardly thrown together. Those circuit schematics are quite scary looking.

I do have to say one thing though. If he's trying to throw out a standard hobbyist kit that can be expanded sort of the way that Linux got started, I'd give him five stars for effort. If that's the direction he wants to take this, then I think it would be an amazing leap to have an open source, open hardware platform. Not that it is fast enough to be very useful, but having an open hardware platform means that someone could find a way to drop in a 2GHz Celeron in there at some point. Well, maybe not. Different instruction architecture, but you get the idea. Maybe a G4 CPU would work. Most of the components would need to be replaced as well.

I don't think its something I would buy, but given that you need a PC to download C code into it, I could see a lot of people using something like this as a high end prototyping tool in the engineering world or for senior projects. My senior project would have been soooo much easier with something like that.

Cant we turn a PC into a console by writing a high performance OS that resides beside Windows/Linux and works to a particular configuration (particular processor family, hard disk, memory, graphics card)? Is that hard? Is that being attempted. Anybody know who/where?

I know of a small company that made a PC-based console. It's got a 700Mhz Intel processor and nVidia graphics and at least an 8GB hard drive. I can't seem to remember the name of that company.... what is SmallSoft?

I think it looks like a fun toy, but probably not a huge money maker for the indie.

I could see teens being really impressed with being able to make a game that ran on your TV. In fact, I'm thinking about buying one for my nephew for Christmas, and one for myself. Then we'd have motivation to keep making games to show one another.

Spike, if you just want to do oldskool to-the-metal development, just get a classic Amiga or a GBA + flasher, or a dreamcast, or some other programmable already existing gaming console :)

Originally posted by Henrik
Spike, if you just want to do oldskool to-the-metal development, just get a classic Amiga or a GBA + flasher, or a dreamcast, or some other programmable already existing gaming console :)


hmm im looking into the GBA + flasher thing now, thanks for the advice;) ill probably mess around with that for a while.. i still might get the xgamestation though, it just looks like alot of fun.

Actually, to get started on the GBA you don't even need a flasher, there are excellent free emulators available (VisualBoyAdvance). Go to www.gbadev.org for more information about where to find one of the free gcc-based devkits, etc.

Originally posted by Henrik
Actually, to get started on the GBA you don't even need a flasher, there are excellent free emulators available (VisualBoyAdvance). Go to www.gbadev.org for more information about where to find one of the free gcc-based devkits, etc.

hey thanks Henrik! thats some cool stuff!