My wife found this article today. If you haven't read it, it's an interesting look at the evolution of the "God" type games.

MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/954674.asp?vts=082120031205http://search.msn.com/default.aspx)

Hmm, a really interesting read actually.

I found the notion of Christians spreading the gospel even in a virtual world like Everquest especially....ummm...neat! And something I had never even thought of as a consequence of creating a game "world".

The prevailing wisdom is that games are a form of release and escapism from the real world and yet we see people bringing their core beliefs and ideologies into the virtual world with them. No one preaches the gospel during a screening of Terminator 3 but in game's virtual world anything goes. I guess that's the big difference between passive entertainment (tv and movies) and interactive entertainment.

I think that the more video games are understood as medium to communicate ideas (even if on a subversive level) the less likely we are to keep seeing arguments that "video games are not art".

I found the notion of Christians spreading the gospel even in a virtual world like Everquest especially....ummm...neat!


Because you could then stick your sword through them? :) That would be kind of neat...

But I don't think that games being a medium of communication (between players) is what makes them art. After all, you don't consider the telephone to be art. It's the way that the creator communicates to the audience that makes something art.

I did like the last part of the article, with David Thomas -

"These doctrine based games aren’t interesting,” he said.
Religion lies deeper. In a column on his Web site, “Buzzcut,” Thomas wrote, “The structure of games themselves have, what seems to me, a fundamentally theological message.”


Interesting. I live in a godless universe myself, but when I play a game, my favourite types of game are usually the ones where the creator has a very perscriptive role - I like everything in a game to be planned, to have a purpose, for the game to have a definite ending. I'm not so keen on the open-ended, free-for-all type games.

Is this my way of finding relief from the chaotic, arbitrary nature of the real world (as I see it), I wonder?

After all, you don't consider the telephone to be art. It's the way that the creator communicates to the audience that makes something art.

Sorry to go a little off topic, but this quite litually made me LOL and I'm at tech now, so everyone turned around and looked at me.

Brilliant

As for Christians in online games, I think thats pretty bad, I get enough people trying to push their belives onto me in real life, it's the last thing I need when I'm trying to escape and relax.

I hear you there, last thing I want is someone coming to my door at 7am on a sunday trying to push their beliefs on me.

Release the hounds !!

P.S. I don't mind people beliving / practicing christianity, I just don't like people trying to tell my that I have to as well.

Who's forcing anything on you?

Keith, the person that says "God Bless" whenever they see me or i help them or I sneeze or something. For me is insulting me, and I started refuting "hope god hates you" or "go to hell"... If they find that offensive, tough luck, I know my god will hate them all so if they are allowed to tell their god to bless me, i may as well tell my god to send them to hell. And by my god, I'm saying the little Tiger plushy I keep on my desk . :p

Keep your beliefs for yourself and the ones that want them.


ps: Keith, if I remeber correctly, you also tried to persuade me to read a religious book (bible) a long time ago in #gamedev :)

I don't care about religion in games, as long as I can get out of there at will. If they to complete a mission, I have to spend 10 minutes in a church listening to someone preaching, its crap and I want my money back, if I can just get out of there and get the item somewhere else then I have no problem with it.

* Threadjack to <political group here> are nazis. Then Godwins Law invoked quickly to terminate this thread.

Just kidding. I think games could be a great way to spread propaganda, just look at how well America's Army has been received. However, you have to take into consideration your target audience. While it may seem like all computer gamers are squishy minded 10-16 years old, I think the average is around 28, so the average computer gamer has already made up his or her mind about religion.

It would be naive to think that a game is going to add significantly to the teen ranks though, that mostly depends on parental influence. Couldn't hurt to try though. Someones bound to be taken in by your scheme..

I just played the Heaven and Hell demo on PCZone's coverdisk yesterday by the way. Great concept but terrible execution.

I wonder if it'll get banned in some countries for blasphemy? It's basically a game about converting people to some god or other who most likely isn't the one true God (or at least, the one true God at the particular location on the planet that everyone can agree on, if you see what I mean).

Cas :)

I think that people proselytizing during a game is no more annoying than someone munchkin-powergaming during a game. Both are personality traits.

- EDIT -
Deleted potential flame-bait. My bad.

Just a reminder to keep this thread on topic. It's in danger of wandering into a discussion about religion in general that has nothing to do with indie game dev.

I think people have gone way off on a tangent here. I was just pointing out an interesting article related to game development. I see it as an untapped market. Nothing more.

As game developers we should all be aware of what's going on in the market. I'm not advocating these games any more than am I advocating XXX games. But both are marketing avenues that are interesting to read about. Knowing what the market wants (and yes, some people want religious games) is part of understanding your potential customers.

The one thing that kind of leaves me feeling like something's missing in a religious-themed game is that, if it's religious-themed, it probably intends to paint a picture that a certain diety is in control in one way or another. But then when the player dies or fails his mission, it kind of puts a damper on this concept. I think it would be cool if somebody could make a game like this while somehow making the potential of the player to fail consistent with the overall theme.

I remember playing the old Christian Nintendo carts wherein the player reinacted some Biblical event. But it always struck me as odd that, since we're talking about religion and things that supposedly God ordained, the player could fail and this would necessarily reverse the intended meaning of the religious message. Since the success or failure in the game world is entirely dependent upon the human player, it would appear that the deity in the game is virtually powerless and that the player holds the ultimate power in deciding the outcome of things. I think it'd be very innovative if somebody could come up with a game mechanic that could preserve the perceived potency of the diety while allowing the player the ability to fail.

So while like any unique game idea, I find religious themes to be an interesting choice for games, I also have yet to see it implemented in a way that seemed consistent.

What Punchey mentioned is a very good point. God just can't be pigeon-holed into a game mechanic. I haven't yet thought of a solution either - but I think it would be somewhere along the lines of allegory (like Chronicles of Narnia) or traditional game or story with a Christian backdrop (like Ben-Hur).

Jack

I think you're right, Jack. Allegory is a good approach to something like this. A bit of a compromise, but it's been working for the likes of C. S. Lewis for a long time. :)