Many people think that developers loose programming skills as they get older. And there is an understanding like a developer should do rather managment when s/he gets older. I hate that understanding. Coding is the thing I love the most. Even if I had become a publisher, I would continue coding.

Why do people think like developers loose skills? Is this a fact? I think the strongest organ of a human is the brain. It works fine better than muscles and bones. Creativity doesn't get lost either. Many artists create new art until they die. I think the belief on lose of skills is just a way that lazy developers find to become a manager when they get around 40.

ergas

i don't believe that loosing skills is dependant on age. i think it's quite the contrary - good programmers get even better over time, provided that they work on code continously.

it's a business thing. some programmers get bored doing the same job for years, or usually get promoted for a management position. i've seen lead programmers who didn't have the time to write a single line of code, sometimes it's too much work to manage the team.

I don't think they lose skills, eventually they understand that "Multiple Templated polymorphed inheritancy" is not required for their incoming product... so they just keep it simple an effective , which can look like a regression for the young programmers who know C++ perfectly well.

Young Programmer :
<Tship>theShip::SuperAlien::UFO()

ufo->move( movementManager( )->goRight() ? movementManager( )->goLeft () : 1 ) ;


Older programmer :

shipX++ ;

of course way 1 is nicer to show to your teatcher ;)
pat.
ps : don't try this at home!

phelios: you show me that code as an assigment and I as a teacher (if i was one) would bi**h slap you to the moon :)

Geesh, talk about wasting time and keys.

I've never really heard of this accusation except maybe among younger people trying to stick up for themselves. In fact, from what I've seen many of your top game developers over the years have had a core of programmers who are in their 30's or 40's... people who have already have 10-20 years experience in programming. I saw interviews with some of the guys who made early atari and nes games, and many of them had been working on mainframes and unix systems for years before getting into gamedev.

Likewise, anytime I've gotten to see behind-the-scenes on Japanese game developers, they're always a bunch of (I dare use this term) ... 'old fogies.'

However, trends have been moving toward younger and younger cores of gamedevers. This might even be something you could argue with when talking about why games these days seem to be of lesser quality on a whole, because the age of game developers has decreased quite a bit. While younger people seem to have an easier time grasping advanced technical aspects of modern computers, I think they have a tendancy to overlook fine details and the element of style. There are always exceptions to any generalization, of course... but on a whole that seems the trend.

Strickly speaking on a scientific level: It is a known fact that the human brain does slow down quite a bit later in life, although that doesn't really start setting in until your 50's for most people (ie, when you're nearing retirement). Note that has nothing to do with memory loss or ability to comprehend the complex or the abstract. It's just a general slowing of the function of the brain, meaning it takes you a little longer to do stuff than it used to. Some people also develop forgetfulness (memory loss), which is unrelated to slowness, and is also treatable now with certain anti-depressant type medications.

- Air

I've gotta say, I've never heard this one before! :p

The reason the games industry doesn't have many older developers isn't that they've lost their skills - it's that they have families and other priorities. The games industry takes a lot of time if you havn't noticed, and I think when you get older you wisen up to the fact that it's not necessary.
Jake pointed out that in Japan there are a lot more older developers, and I think the reason for this is the work ethic over there compared to the western world; it's perfectly acceptable to work hard for longer.

Of the companies I've worked at, there has only ever been one old programmer (around 50), and I must say he was probably one of the smartest (and most fun) people I've ever worked with - he was very much old school, with his demo CD packed full of asm code for dozens of different processors.
He did most of the VU assembly for a PS2 engine, and if any of you have worked on a PS2 before, you'll know that it isn't something just anyone can do. This guy lived in a world of counting cycles and squeezing them down one by one - crazily cool.

Originally posted by Jake Stine
... In fact, from what I've seen many of your top game developers over the years have had a core of programmers who are in their 30's or 40's... people who have already have 10-20 years experience in programming. I saw interviews with some of the guys who made early atari and nes games, and many of them had been working on mainframes and unix systems for years before getting into gamedev.

For the top developers that is right. But the ones who are good but not the best seem to disapear. There is a Turkish game developer known as Mevdic who developed Enduro Racer in 80s and many other popular games. He used to be a top programmer. Two months ago I went to a speech of his. He seemed to be more on the management side of it, not the development. I am afraid to be dependent too much on money in the future. Which would hinder creativity and free development. Is the situation common for all?

Originally posted by Nutter
Of the companies I've worked at, there has only ever been one old programmer (around 50), and I must say he was probably one of the smartest (and most fun) people I've ever worked with - he was very much old school, with his demo CD packed full of asm code for dozens of different processors.

I would like to be like the 50 year old guy. But I am afraid that factors in life that you cannot control might lead elsewhere.

ergas

Well, hard-core programming.. its just bloody stressful. For years and years it gets too much.

The industry itself is draining enough.

Frankly, I'm glad that i wont have to be a hardcore programmer anymore and I can choose my own battles.

.Z.

I think it's odd someone hasn't heard that statement made. It does stem from the fact that like Air said, people's brains slow down. But it also comes from the fact that past a certain age you won't really learn that much new stuff because your brain won't be able to absorb it. So those that have coded for years and years when they've reached their 50's they already know the stuff so they're not really going to lose it. But if you haven't and you reach and older age you won't be able to absorb it as readily as you could when you were young. This is of course, always exceptions.

Keith

I think that's its about creativity and open minded. the younger you are, the more open minded and creative you are. you'll notice that more with people in their 40s who dont look byond the "frame" of conventions.

Uhfgood: I know some 50+ year old programmers that would like to take you out behind a building and have a 'discussion' with you for comments like that :-) (Not me - I'm only 30 something.) Here's the first thing - would you like to back up your statements with some current medical research? 'Cause, well, everything I've read over the last couple o' years points out that past about age 20, age becomes irrelevant on learning - it all comes down to personality then. The industry that I'm in for my day job (Industrial Automation) tends to have more programmers in the 40+ and up range than below that. Almost all of 'em that I know are flexible in thier thinking - always ready to learn something new language wise (not everything in IA is ladder logic like it used to be for a while), or concept wise.

My thinking is more in line with Patrox - you end up with a lot more wisdom about programing as you age. I've looked back at stuff I did when I was 21, and what I do now, and there's an incredible difference - I would do incredibly complex stuff, partially because I could. Now I'm more tuned - when I code something, it's going to do it in the minumum number of lines, and as optimized as possible.

But most importantly, I don't even think age is the real factor. It's personality. There's some 20 somethings I wouldn't let touch my code, and some 40 year olds that I feel the same about. Just like everything else, steriotyping and over simplification is not a good thing :-)

(I'll stop here - I could really expand on this, and pretty much make an entire article outta this particular subject :-)

Additional to biological and personal factors, there is the capitalist way of things go nowadays. The system accepts the labor valueless, which is actually "programming" for us. I heard many managers saying "hah! Programming. Just labor. We will outsource to the cheapest and get a reasonable quality and that works fine!".

ergas

My girlfriend used to study the brain and now studies learning. I've heard from her several times that as you age, your ability to learn decreases. I've asked her to pass on something about that.

There is also the generaliztion that career researchers make their biggest leaps when they are young.

For most people, constant learning is part of a career in programming.

I've only been programming for 15 years. In that time, whenever I've gotten really good at something, it soon became mostly irrelivent due to technology changes. It seems I learn a new language every 2 years or so.

In addition to that, the game industry is subject to huge technology shifts, and that seems to be driven by young people.

Young people also seem to be more willing and more physically able to work long and stressful hours.


Older programmers have an edge on management compared to younger ones. At a certain point, I think your skills become more valuable as a manager.


That said, those are all generalizations, and individuals will vary widely from that.

Personally, I hope to be doing something completely different in another 15 years. Something more physically gratifying, with more tangible results.

If i look at the two major gaming companies in my city (EA and UbiSoft), they do employ very young ppl. The main reason is salary and work hours. A youngster, just to be in the game industry, will accept to work 80h/week for 22k canadian. (yes, that is the salary ubisoft offered me. It ).

Its not because they are better programmers. Its because its cheap labor. They will gladly pay 1-2 guy 100k/year to manage/teach/decide, and 20 guys at 20k to program, for a total of 600k/year instead of 1-2 guy at 100k and 10 at 50-60k (800k) because the youngster are at least half as good as the oldies yet ask for ridiculously low salary because they a) dont know better, b) will do anything to be in game industry) and c) dont have family, will work long hours etc)

this may make no sens, i'm very tired and when i'm that tired, my english just disappears.

Smurf