Which market would you go in first if you're an indie game
developer ?

Eventually you want both but which one is more lucrative
and will bring you better conversion rates ?

The traditional PC games market (shareware etc) or
the pocketpc market ?

Assuming you can only focus only on 1 product/platform at
a time, which one you will go for first ?

Hmm... I don't eventually do both ;) I stick with PC games, no intensions for pocket PCs.

Perhaps you should read Steve's articles in the ww.dexterity.com/articles I'm sure you'll find lots of guidance there.

Honestly both pocket pc and pc are flooded. The best platform to get some attention in is probably Mac.

The PC market is flooded... with shit.

Cas :)

Originally posted by princec
The PC market is flooded... with shit.

Cas :)

Doesn't matter if it's all junk. In terms of getting noticed it still impedes people from finding your gem as it were.

I'm expecting some consolidation in the indie market. I think we discussed a while ago about a "fork" in the indie scene where we're going to see the difference in production values between amateur and professional indie development drastically shoot of in separate directions. When the technology starts to diverge like that the marketing will follow it.

So what I'm saying is: shortly in the PC market it's going to get very hard to get noticed selling those 2MB 16 color GDI games that use the Windows user interface that the indie market used to thrive on. This might lead to an increase of 100%-200% in the development costs of an indie game but it will also very conveniently punt 90% of the games out there into obscurity.

I think ;)


Cas :)

I developed a Pocket PC game called Pocket Hockey Pong that is currently being sold at www.handango.com. The conversion rate is about 3%, although I only have about 500 or so downloads. Um, I really didn't feel like marketing this game because I think I would be better off creating a better game with a lot more value to it for the consumer because a pong clone is kind of been done too many times. I'm still at the process of trying to think of an idea for my next game, any ideas? I was thinking of pool/billiards or a metal gear solid-esque game. The only problem is I really don't have a lot of artistic skills so I have to either create a game that doesn't rely too much on the graphics or try to find an computer artist that can chop up some decent images.

I might also try to create a Windows game instead, because I really can't think of any games that could use a stylus other than pong/arkanoid. But if I do find an idea that could use the stylus in an innovative way, I'll probably create that.

I'm expecting some consolidation in the indie market. I think we discussed a while ago about a "fork" in the indie scene where we're going to see the difference in production values between amateur and professional indie development drastically shoot of in separate directions. When the technology starts to diverge like that the marketing will follow it.

So what I'm saying is: shortly in the PC market it's going to get very hard to get noticed selling those 2MB 16 color GDI games that use the Windows user interface that the indie market used to thrive on. This might lead to an increase of 100%-200% in the development costs of an indie game but it will also very conveniently punt 90% of the games out there into obscurity.


I'm having a hard time imagining how more colors or better graphics could make Slay (http://windowsgames.co.uk/slay.html) a more enjoyable game.

I'm having a hard time imagining how more colors or better graphics could make Slay a more enjoyable game.

I don't think it's a matter of making it more enjoyable. It's making it *look* more enjoyable and hopefully increase the number of people willing to give the game a shot.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that if you're looking at "enjoyment" to market your game, you'll likely fail, because no-one can tell how enjoyable it is until they've already a) found it and b) decided to download it

You can surely make any game succeed in either market provided you understand the merits of gameplay alone won't market the game successfully. If 90% of the games on the PC simply look or sound substandard, boring or unoriginal ("break through walls of bricks!" er, great) then it's not as hard as you might think to make a game in the 10% bracket which make people sit up and take notice.

Before anyone shrewdly points out here that I'm not exactly the picture of success in the PC games market I'd just like to say that our problem is with the selling part rather than the marketing part! We've had 20,000 downloads now in four months - not bad going - presumably based on the quality of our screenshots and site blurb because we sure aren't doing any other marketing.

Cas :)

I seem to have forgotten to make my points. These apply specifically to the game I've linked to (Slay (http://windowsgames.co.uk/slay.html)), and could apply to other games depending on circumstances.

Slay has versions on both the Pocket PC and the PC (which offers some interesting cross-selling opportunities I bet). The PocketPC forces the very simple graphics (as you can see), but on the plus side, the download size is tiny (half a meg or so), and I bet it works flawlessly on _every_ computer, as low as a 386 even. However, the simple graphics make the game _more_ enjoyable, and I couldn't see any way to improve them without lowering the quality of the gameplay - it's true that each hex on the map has a single color, but that color has a meaning that is made crystal clear. It's true that each hex is very very small - but the game offers a strategic overview that's sorely missed in AAA games, from Civilisation or Panzer General to the RTSs.

As far as I can tell, the company that makes Slay _is_ a successful one - judging by the time they've been in business, the number of the games on their site, and the addiction Slay gave me a while ago.


Original post by princec
I think the point I'm trying to make is that if you're looking at "enjoyment" to market your game, you'll likely fail, because no-one can tell how enjoyable it is until they've already a) found it and b) decided to download it


It's true that a game can fail for reasons that have nothing to do with enjoyment - but I imagine everyone agrees enjoyment is the single most important element of success.

We actually know enjoyment has no more or less influence on success than any of the other factors.

I mentioned earlier that I have a large number of people finding and downloading my game, and in this other thread (http://www.dexterity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1524) that I have a large number of people enjoying themselves; now what I've got is a problem getting them to part with cash. Clearly enjoyment has been eliminated as the limiting factor for the relative success of AF. The same is probably true for any other game up to a point.

Now - PocketPC games don't have to look like Slay at all. I seem to remember playing an RTS recently on my iPaq that was near as dammit as good as Command & Conquer, graphically and sonically. I could improve on Slay 100% graphically and likely it'd make even more sales as a result because it would draw more downloads.

Cas :)

I was at some mobile conference a while back and a presenter told us that one can easily make a few thousand creating a simple pocketpc application.

He created an app that simply did measurement conversions....that really go me interested in the pocketpc industry myself.

has anyone else created anything for ppc's?

Originally posted by Salman
I was at some mobile conference a while back and a presenter told us that one can easily make a few thousand creating a simple pocketpc application.

He created an app that simply did measurement conversions....that really go me interested in the pocketpc industry myself.

has anyone else created anything for ppc's?

We have one. It's definitely NOT an easy market to make a few thou in with any old program. A good program will probably make that over time, but there's not too many places to get good expsoure. Those places that do have a decent audience only allow you to sell through them and collect a heavy fee. Without advertisign on those same sites you're buried almost instantly. I went into the PPC market thinking it would be easier than the PC market. Now I think it might be a little harder.

My vote goes to PalmOS. ;) For some reason, PocketPC doesn't interest me.