I have talked to a fair number of 3D Artists; and they all seem to want concept art? Assuming that this is normal? I don't understand fully understand how I can come up with concept art since I am not really an artist and cannot draw? Do I have to hire a second artist to do the concept art for the first artist?

It kind of sounds funny; but it is not!

With one of my artist, I drew the concept drawings on a scratch sheet of paper and then scanned it. Overlay-ed some additional text descriptions via Paintshop Pro and then sent it to him.

Even though my drawings were very crude (which is putting it lightly), it gave him a MUCH better idea of what I was looking for. He then turned my scribbles into art.

If the 3D artists you talked to only want highly sophisticated and professional concept art, then I'm not sure what you should do. However, I would imagine they just want a "visual" of some sort of what you're looking for. A picture can speak a thousand words, so even a crude drawing could give them a better idea than a lengthy text/verbal-only description.

Some artists are really just modellers, not artists. Our Chaz does both which is particularly helpful.

If you can't get concept sketches then provide reference influence material, for example, photos, films, etc. from where the modeller can draw ideas.


Cas :)

If the 3D artists you talked to only want highly sophisticated and professional concept art, then I'm not sure what you should do.

Simple. Forget about them and find someone else - someone who can justify calling themselves an "artist".

Although I can definitely see how they might want a rough sketch or two, or some reference material, to get a feel for what direction you're wanting to take... it beats churning out different stuff until the client finally says, "yes, that's what I was looking for".

Anthony,

Are you the artist behind the games on your site? I really would like to partner with someone; not because I don't want to pay money up front; but I actually want them to provide input into the game and contribute ideas?

From everything I have read; if its your first real release you don't have to much luck find an artist to partner; well unless you limit the scope to something that can be completed in a very short time?

Any advice:

- How many hours should a game allot for graphics?
- How can you find someone to partner for a game?
- Is there a limit to the size of a first game; I read 80 hours in a couple of different posts?

Yep, I'm the artist... I'm not sure if I can be much help with your questions though:

- How many hours should a game allot for graphics?

Of course, it totally depends on the game. And the artist. I've found that approximately a gazillion hours is about right for me. Your results may vary!

- How can you find someone to partner for a game?

Beats me. I got around this by learning to do my own programming. Best bet is probably to go with someone you already know in real life. I wouldn't have a clue how to find a good artist online... I've never looked for one.

- Is there a limit to the size of a first game; I read 80 hours in a couple of different posts?

Heh, no limit. Just try to shoot for something you have a hope of finishing. I'd say pick the smallest idea you can for a first project as it'll probably be more of a learning experience than anything, and you don't want to devote years of your life to something that will end up being put down to a learning experience. 80 hours though... nah. It'd take an experienced developer to crank out a half-decent game in that short a time. Just pick something simple, and have it take as long as it takes. Everyone works at their own speed... and your first game will probably go a lot slower than you expect. Once you get a few done, you'll have more experience (as well as a useful code library to draw from, hopefully), you'll be faster, and better able to judge how long it's going to take you.

However, this is a useful rule-of-thumb:

Q: How long will my game take to make?
A: Twice as long.

Hey, just clicked on your web link. I take it then that you're an experienced affiliate marketer whose planning to branch out into production?

And if that BSC in your sig means what it usually means, I guess that you are a serious coder... but just haven't made a game before...?

Surely there must be someone out there willing to team up with you, with such good credentials for a first-timer.

[edit]
Yeah, yeah, I'm talking to myself again... but I've looked into Freelance Games' website a little more now. So what's happening with Starcry, then?

I have written a couple of DOS games in the past; one them was published on a shareware CD “Game Head Monthly” along with WarCraft II (kind of funny). Yes, the BCS stands for Bachelors of Computer Science; and I am a serious coder. I have a strong technical background with a Master Certificate in Project Management from George Washington University.

Currently, I am a Technical Architect for one of the largest consulting companies in Canada, the owner of Freelance Games, and the future developer of “StarCry”. I have worked as a Program Manager for Dell in Austin Texas; that pretty much convinced me that I wanted to stay on the technical side and pursue my passion for Game Development.

So, are their any people that would like to work with me? Yes! The problem thus far has been that they either want to be paid as a consultant; or they basically don’t have enough experience; or think the game may be to large for my first game.

I have no issues paying people as a consultant for things like sound; but since I am a fairly visual person it would be great to find a graphics artist to work with as more of a partnership. As for StarCry here is a development screen shot; it has been going slow because I have been writing the story and talking to contractors about graphics pricing:

www.FreelanceGames.com/Graphics/StarCry-S4.jpg

PS: If anyone is interested please email me @ Sean.Doherty@FreelanceGames.com

I have to agree with Anthony about needing, "a rough sketch or two, or some reference material, to get a feel for what direction you're wanting to take"

'Simple. Forget about them and find someone else - someone who can justify calling themselves an artist.'

Isn't that a bit harsh?

Don't you think just like programming there are many different areas a person can specialize in? Like network programming, AI, gameplay, graphics.

I think it's pretty rare to find an artist who can do all it all(modeling, texturing, animation, concepts, level design), and be willing to work on an independent project. They would be either working for themselves(like you) or charging an arm/leg to contract out.

Side Question: [How many hours on average does it take to make a low polygon textured model of say starship or space station]

Modeling wouldn't take too long (4-6hrs on 500-1k polygons). UV mapping, and texuturing for me though is another story.

Well, actually, advice to get rid of such artist would be a good one. If he/she really need only highly detailed renderings, its simply not worth it. They take time and money.
I came into game development purely as a concept artist in the beggining. Needless to say, at first I burnt on many projects. And some strange links appeared - the more detailed concepts 3D modellers asked, the less capable and talented they were. In some cases it wasnt even modeller who asked for highly detailed art, it was "designer'/"CEO"/whatever who just needed pretty pictures to hide their insecurity about the venture they had started.

The best 3D artists needed just basic idea, some significant details and were fine when I used also refs from cinema/photos, if time was tight and I simply could not make it all on time. It means they used their grey matter. I sent very detailed and refined sketches when I had *very* clear vision which was hard to communicate verbally and I had a feeling that any other solution would not be as powerful as mine.

On the topic of getting people to collaborate with you - I might be biased, but I havent found better place than GarageGames.
Of course, like in any other more or less popular place, people you really need to meet, are less then 10 percent, but for me those ten percent outweight all hassle.
My advice: start with IRC channel where you can find soon enough who is who. After a while steer away from main channel (has become a bit noisy) and join #gameinaday or others.

It has worked for me finding good partners. Maybe it works for you as well.

Assuming that you've seen samples from the artist in question and you know that they can produce quality work in a style that you like, then you should probably assume that they're asking for concept work because they're unsure of the brief.

If you want the artist to surprise you then I'd imagine most of them would be happy to accept a very open brief in terms of art direction, as long as they trust you not to ask for a ton of reworking once you've seen the outcome. This may not be something you can achieve with an artist you haven't worked with before.

I don't see this as any different to other tasks. As a programmer, I know that I get extremely nervous when faced with a poorly specified task when the person giving the requirement doesn't explicitly state that the working process will be a flexible prototyping-style one. It's too easy to find yourself feeling abused by someone who just wants you to work up a million ideas until you happen to do what they want but don't know it yet or don't have the skills to express.

Personally, I'd do some sketches (however bad) and/or point the artist at examples of the sort of thing I want, then suggest that they do some rough responses that we could discuss.

One area where the artist would certainly be entirely justified in demanding complete specification before starting work is in the technical requirements. Issues of poly count, palette, animation frames, bitmap size and format etc. should be pretty well decided before starting. Oh, and beware of artists who don't ask about this stuff, because if they don't you're probably in for some pain. Explaining why a 20,000 polygon model of a minor game object is unworkable to an artist who thinks it's beautiful and doesn't want to "compromise their work" isn't something you want to be doing.

mwtb

Hi

I do my own concept art (and 2d in general)

http://picserver.org/view_image.php/U02110F7O0U9/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/0TS666OP2225/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/L75JKU7LE532/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/VR2H744UK6W6/p.jpeg


modelling/texturing
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/QZ587XK263ME/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/5C05J13J4VZ1/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/6V3VOA587RM3/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/G64CS0T2F6SU/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/692V6D9QFMTJ/p.jpeg

animation
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/12273T87448I/p.jpeg
http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/view_image.php/8791PE93X76C/p.jpeg
http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/view_image.php/P6VRSR9W9S38/p.jpeg
http://picserver.org/view_image.php/HM080D8Z6Q45/p.jpeg


I even do my UI stuff, icons, etc. levels, objects...all.


I have worked in companies, and usually no artist cover al fields but prefer to specialize.
I did so(covered all areas) as my area is crappy in videogames companies, and I wanted to keep in my area(zone, region I mean). Bu is not usual and should not be expected as people know they must specialize to get a job, and is a huge world the game art field.

Now I am in another profession. because there was no stability.

I was an illustrator/comic maker that had to make it in 3d to open my posibilities.

In general, many 3d people can't do well drawing stuff, some specialize in objects, levels for this reason.Also, is easier to find an error in a human face than in an inorganic object or level.

is way less frequent to see a 3d guy go to learn later drawing stuff.

A milimeter error doesn't count, in a face it does. (at least in games)

But there are lots of modeller unable to draw, which are very good in 3d techniques, and learnt mor eor less to do humans well proportioned in 3d, still they are not able to draw.

In companies, it's two guys usually , modeller, and 2d guy (concept and UIs)

My 2 "un-humble" cents ;)

I have to agree with you.. I dabble with models myself and feel quite satisfied with the results. While I can also do some decent UV mapping I find it very difficult however to do the actual drawing, and 2d drawing is at best functional. Ironically the tech guru on the team also doubles up as a good 2d artist so he can paint in the models.

I also agree with Bob3. From what I can tell there are:

- a lot of people who can do 3D Modeler from the concept art;
- a lot less who can 3D model and texture painting from the concept art;
- even less who can do do the concept art, the 3D modeling and paint the textures.


Basically from now on, I am having everything done by concept artists before it gets modeled and textured. It is a lot esier to say to hate a conceptual sketch than something that took a 3D modeler a week to do.

Indeed;is way easier and quicker to change a drawing, play with the character design... ;)