Hi guys. I wanted to make a little poll about what is more efficient to use.
Distribute a full limited version which can be unlocked with keygen or just let a full version of the game be downloaded after its purchased?

When I'm talking about efficiency, I'm talking about which method will let you sell to more customers? Or it really does not matter?

Appreciate the input.

My reasons for switching from keycode to full download are as follows: The demo download of my current project is less than two thirds the size of the full game, resulting in significant bandwidth savings.
It's harder to illegally distribute a full game than it is to illegally distribute a keycode.
I feel that customers are more likely to pay for an extra download than they are to pay for access to something which is already on their disk.

However, I haven't actually tested if one method leads to more sales than the other.

My reasons for switching from full download to keycode are as follows:
- sharing a fullversion download is as easy as sharing a keygen, just look at kazaa or emule peer 2 peer programs, with the fast lines today you can transfer a whole DVD in 2-3 hours... :(
- keygen are simple to implement and provide protection against the casual pirate, you can send them without problems of login-download-etc
- since everything is in the demo, even people who have 56k modem or simply don't know/want to download a file from internet can buy the game from me and just have a serial code delivered (think when your games will get on a magazine)
-updates are easier to do (no need to upload every time both demo+fullversion)

Surely there are downsides, but if you have many games that sell, keygen is the best way in my opinion...

i am 100% behind full version.
Every game I've made that has a serial has been hacked. every one without a serial is impossible to get hold of (i check regularly).
Also some of my customers are confused about the whole regcode thing. they prefer to download a new file.

It was my intention to use fullversions, unfortunately facts forced me to use keygen.
Hacking/craking don't worry me much: if people want to play your game they can just share it, or if it is 10-12mb they can just send fullversion file with email (takes 5 minutes with a good ASDL).
The problem is that I got many people unable to download the fullversion, and while I am on holiday or I have to do other things is difficult to provide support to those people...

It's a lot faster and easier to run a quick search for a serial/CD-Key than it is to wait in line at the fileshare queue. You can often grab a code instantly from a google groups search....

Now, if you do the work to keep an eye on cracked codes and disable them in the latest version of your game or otherwise cause searches to turn up more 'bad' codes than 'good' codes....

Just wondering then, why retro64 and dexterity (and also some minor developers) uses serials if they are so easy to share?

Standing in line for a download isn't a deterrent in any way, shape or form. So they set it up and walk away. When they get done watching an episode of their favorite TV show, they've gotten through and the download is complete. Please.

I would really like to try a keygen system for my next game. I love the thought of being able to drop demos everywhere and people simply have to enter a key to unlock everything. Makes it so much easier on me. Plus it helps tremendously when people lose their hard drives or whatever. I don't have to set up special download links for them to get their games back...

Two philosophies in this area, which all have dozens of threads:

Reasons for Full Vers Download:

*Harder to steal
*You can make the full version much larger than the demo, thereby having more content in the full game.

Reasons for Serials:
*People who steal don't buy the game anyway.
*It is much easier for the customer, which is less tech support and more return sales.
*Less Bandwidth and less hassle for the developer.

Personally I think the second point is the key to if you should use one or the other. Lets take a look at two different games:

Game 1 is a fairly simple but good puzzle game. 100 levels in it take up about 1MB of data.

Game 2 is a hardcore action game. 30 levels in it take up 20 megs.

If game 2 uses a serial their demo download will be over 20 megs, because the full version is that large. Game 1 can use a serial and they won't lose much.

It is all about how much space you can save. If you can make your demo under 10 megs by using a full version download as opposed to a serial by god I would say do it. Otherwise... im not so sure.

-Joe

Standing in line for a download isn't a deterrent in any way, shape or form. So they set it up and walk away. When they get done watching an episode of their favorite TV show, they've gotten through and the download is complete. Please.


*shrug* Well, I've never TRIED to get full versions of small indie games over fileshare. I go for anime fansubs, and believe me, it takes a lot longer than a tv show to get anything!

It is not a particularly heavy deterrent, no. If you really don't want to buy it, you can eventually get your copy over fileshare. But if the file is large and you've been waiting through several days of *occasionally* connecting to the one person who has the file at a really slow rate of transfer.... buying the darn thing seems like a lot less hassle.

Maybe you use different fileshare clients than I do. :)

Another significant difference between serials and full version downloads is that downloads cannot be trusted to be free of viruses, whereas serials are almost guaranteed to not cause any damage to your system (unless the author inserts booby traps into the demo, which I consider a criminal act akin to releasing a trojan).

Definately a full version, harder to distribute (except p2p-ish, its probably more likely to be found then a crack on a p2p thing) WAY harder to hack (impossible), with a key, you could probably go binary edit the ONE byte that is checking wether it is reg'd or not, and flip it...

Plus, it is easier to make 2 different versions then 1 with a keygen (unless you use something like Armadillo)

Using full version download here. It's preferable for the most part as it gives a lot more flexibility for the future of the trial version (eg putting in more restrictions later) and knowing that cracking the trial != getting the full version. It should also be a big deterrant against casual piracy, such as seen on a certain site mentioned in a certain thread not so long ago.

Yeah, it's harder to find a full version than it is a serial key. For someone to get hold of a full version, they basically have to search P2P networks. They also risk getting viruses and such.

Whereas with a serial key, a quick search in google will turn up a number of places that list serial keys, then the person just has to go directly to the developer's site and download a virus free demo and unlock it.

With a full version, at least the person has to work for it a bit and they put themselves at risk of viruses. Not to mention, you don't waste bandwidth on thieves.

Finally, I personally think a full version download is more customer friendly. Yeah they may have to download a larger file (though this is actually an incentive for some people), a lot of people like not having to deal with serial keys. Honest customer don't like to be treated like thieves. The copy protection on some applications just go way overboard.

I know some people take it as a personal insult anytime someone downloads or plays a cracked game. But as developers we can only do so much and people will still find a way to pirate your game in some fashion. It's more productive to focus your energies on ways to make your product better. It's not having your head in the sand, it's keeping your priorities straight.

With that said, I'll still support ways to streamline the process for developers to find/report warez sites. But I won't lose sleep if I see my game on a crack site and I won't waste more than 5 minutes reporting it.

To bring it back more on topic, I think you should choose whatever method is easiest for you to implement and gives you peace of mind. If it's a full version download, serial key, or whatever, go with it. Just don't spend more than a week on it.

Just wondering then, why retro64 and dexterity (and also some minor developers) uses serials if they are so easy to share?

That's news to me. I thought both these developers used full version downloads.

I use full version downloads and serial numbers. I have serial for 1 product (pocket aargon) and I will never do it again. Full version downloads are much easier to support. Serial numbers are a constant support nightmare and as has been pointed out earlier very easy to share. Although in the case of pocket aargon they're not easy to share as my serial number is locked into the PDA hotsync id.

I have never had a problem with serials, or the instant online activation mechanism that I use.

Cas :)

I send out full versions. The _demo_ version of one of my games is distributed on warez sites, but I haven't found the full version yet.

The full versions are quite small (< 1.5Megs) so it's not much more trouble for the user to download them. Also, I think it somehow feels better to download a whole game, rather than to pay good money just to unlock something I already have.

Maintaining twice as many builds doesn't bother me, as creating distributables is mostly automated.

I'm in the "big action game" boat - if I include *everything*, the download is clocking in around 16 megs of data. By shipping the demo with reduced quality music and only a handful of levels, I can cut that in half.

Do you protect your full version download against copying somehow? Otherwise, it seems awfully easy to me to share it with friends and the world in general.

The advantage of fullversion separated from demo in effect is that you can save bandwidth using a smaller demo.
But that doesn't save from copying your game, if it's worth it.

I think that the game most pirated are also the more sold... so isn't bad as it seems ;)

Also, if you include everything in demo and just give a serial, you reach also the people who have slow internet access or can't download a file (lol weird but there are some!).

Also, if you include everything in demo and just give a serial, you reach also the people who have slow internet access or can't download a file (lol weird but there are some!).Huh? How is including everything in the demo better for people with slow internet access? If downloading the full version is too much to ask of your customers then what about having them download the same size file for a demo of a game they've never played? I know you're saying that demo + full version is bigger than just the locked full version, but I think getting a customer to buy and download a 20MB game he knows he likes is a lot easier than getting that customer to download a 20MB demo of a game he's never played before.

By the way, a customer who can't download a file is a customer who can't download the demo, which means he got it on CD or from a friend. How many sales does that represent, on average?

(Please excuse my ignorance - I'm new to the scene)

I've heard a few people talk about customers having trouble with regkeys. Is this something that comes up often? I simply assumed that regkeys would be easier for customers, since the downloading/install process is already done - and, since they know they can play the full version the SECOND they click "Buy Now", wouldn't that lead to more impulse buys?

What I was considering is a "partial" full-version download. I would have the "full version" that's downloaded simply be the extra data, art, script, and sound files, and it installs to the location of the demo version. The demo and full version are both the same executable, but instead of checking to see if the regkey has been entered, it'd check to see if the data files for levels 2-20 are present. This would give the benefits of full-version downloads (a simple upgrade experience for the end-user, and it takes longer to download illegal copies), while also keeping the additional download at a relatively small size. Has anyone tried this, and care to share their experiences?

By the way, a customer who can't download a file is a customer who can't download the demo, which means he got it on CD or from a friend. How many sales does that represent, on average?
is not really like that.
1) if you vendor use a login-password system the user may have troubles downloading fullversion
2) mac users have lot of problems with javascript/cookie login system because some browser don't work well with those (like Safari which is very popular)
3) if he "accidentally" format the Hard-disk he have to redownload it again, and either you have to provide an alternate download link or he must buy the nice "extended download warranty" thing that often make people leaving the buynow page (I personally wouldn't pay 4$ more on a game only to get the guarantee that I can download for one year!)
4) CD that comes with magazines are often full of shareware titles. many people don't even know about the existence of some interesting shareware titles, expecially like ours (strategic/simulation games). I had some friend that when thought about shareware = puzzle games only!

Ok those are just some pros about using a serial instead of fullversion download ;)

I send out full versions. The _demo_ version of one of my games is distributed on warez sites, but I haven't found the full version yet.


Zen Puzzle Garden came to my attention on www.midnightsynergy.com, are you the developer?

Often when I visit several shareware sites I see the same game, and It's hard for me to find out who made it. In fact I see so much reselling I thought to myself, one could probably make a living, by simply putting a handful of other peoples games on your own little site, and earning commision. Is that sort of business frowned upon?

I am looking forward to Jasper's Journeys - thats my style of game.

Do you need beta testers ? =D

Why do so many adventure and platform type games come without an editor?
If a game is shiped without an editor, is it on the assumption it is too difficult for the average person? or it to ensure you can create new "addons" later on to sell.

Why do some companies give the editor away for free along with access to a forum - yet some companies will charge you for new levels etc?

The problem I see with serial based games is the hoards of idiots that skank your bandwidth everytime a serial is posted on some warez site.

If only takes 1000 interested thiefs and thats 10gb of my cash down the toilet.

I dont care about people pirating our games, but ill be damned if im gonna pay for them to do it!

Using server based key validation I have never once had any problem with warez sites posting keys. And if someone did they'd find the code will be disabled.

Cas :)

Using server based key validation I have never once had any problem with warez sites posting keys.

And how exactly do you accomplish this "server based key validation" of yours?

Server based registration is a very good way of ensuring that warez sites cant give away any serials. Steam (counter strike,half life etc..) uses this method and so CD keys cant be shared because if you enter a CD key thats already been used, it doesnt work. All you have to do (easier said than done ;) ) is "disable" a particular serial once its been used. This means that if someone else tries to use the same serial, it wouldnt work. Only downside I see to this method is the fact that the user must have an active internet connection, but the counter argument is that they probably have one because they downloaded it :D

... of course, if you disable it as soon as its used, you face the customer support issues of everyone who manages to break their computer and needs to reinstall. :)

I had to reinstall windows and re-register AF not long after getting it; luckily it didn't complain. :)

Ah yes thats a good point. Hmm, couldnt you retrieve the user's machine code, or something unique to that computer and everytime they register, have the machine code sent so you can make sure its the same machine theyre using. But then comes the problem of someone buying a new computer :(

I personally hate any product that ties my license to a single computer. I bought it, I should be able to play/use it on any computer I own. Whether it's a laptop or new computer.

This is what I'm talking about with honest customers having to suffer because of the minority of thieves.

I personally hate any product that ties my license to a single computer. I bought it, I should be able to play/use it on any computer I own. Whether it's a laptop or new computer.

This is what I'm talking about with honest customers having to suffer because of the minority of thieves.

Exactly. I'll fight for however long it takes to return products that force me to use them on one machine.

I don't actually disable keycodes automatically (yet). I let people register as many times as they want with the same code and just keep a count. I noticed one keycode out of all my customers rapidly starting to increase - it got to 12 in the space of a couple of weeks - so I disabled the keycode. I didn't get a query from the owner of the key so I can assume that he's still happy with it.

When it gets to the stage that I can no longer personally track every customer's registrations I'll automate what I do manually. It'll still be very relaxed. I encourage people to install the game on more than one computer and give it to their friends and family.

Cas :)

Steam (counter strike,half life etc..) uses this method and so CD keys cant be shared because if you enter a CD key thats already been used, it doesnt work. All you have to do (easier said than done ;) ) is "disable" a particular serial once its been used. This means that if someone else tries to use the same serial, it wouldnt work. Only downside I see to this method is the fact that the user must have an active internet connection, but the counter argument is that they probably have one because they downloaded it :DFunny you should mention Steam, because I've read about legitimate customers who are prevented (http://www.evilavatar.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=5244) from playing the game because their key is in use by hackers who generate these keys using a keygen program. The hacker gets to play the game, the customer gets to be suspected of piracy.

I hate any kind of DRM and generally refuse to use any DRM-infested products.

I also wonder how easy it is to hack out the part of the game that tries to communicate with the server and validate itself/keycode/whathaveyou. It can't be that hard unless there is some very elaborate thing going on between the game and the server or if the server is downloading something the game needs to run. Even then, there are plenty of free tools to figure it all out and bypass it. It is a neat way to see who is registering I guess and a potential hassle for customers changing PCs, wanting to install the game on 3 of their own machines, but hardly anything serious to stop pirates.

Someone reinstalling isn't something that happens a lot. Just have a mechanism in place that counts how many times a serial is used and sets off an alarm if it sees more than, say, 3 on the same day and locks it out.