Hi
Im working on a side scrolling platformer. Im allowing the user to sometimes be able to use two guns, but Im not sure what would be the best way to do this control-wise. With a single gun, the user aims using the mouse and moves with the keyboard. What do you guys think would be the best way to control two aiming cursors at once? Obviously, I can only use the mouse for one cursor, so how should the other one be controlled? One possibility I came up with was to "mirror" the mouse-cursor so if the user aims top right, the secondary cursor would be on the top left. Do you think this would be a good way, and relatively easy to control method?
Thanks

How about having the second crosshair automated so you can have different methods you can select with right mouse button. so one could be rotate around current cursor, two could be auto lock on to the weakest targets on the scene etc etc.. and you could have it so you could cycle through them or you have to have so much integrity/powerups to use them... just another poopy idea , I should write a book ;)

Do you really need two guns? It sounds needlessly complicated. Here's some options anyway:

Second gun is completely automated.
Second gun is partially automated. You can paint targets by sweeping your main targetting reticule over them. Then the gun shoots are that target until it is destroyed.
Second gun aims at the same targetting reticule as your other gun, except it lags behind it. Steady your aim to concentrate both guns on the same spot, or sweep to spread your fire.
Second gun automatically aims at a target close to the reticule, but not directly at it (that's what the primary gun does). If there is no valid target then it aims directly at the reticule.
Second gun always shoots left or right, whichever way the player is facing.
Second gun picks its own target based on what your character can see. In other words, it will aim at a target in front of your character. It'd be nice to see the character animate as he tracks targets even when not firing.

I wouldn't lumber the player with any extra controls for two-guns though. You don't want the control-method to be too different to one-gun.

It might also be more interesting if the second weapon is different to the first. Wielding two uzis just increases your firepower and number of simultaneous targets. Wielding an uzi and a grenade lobber offers a lot more possibilities.

When you're using just a single weapon, the second fire button could be used as alternative fire.

Basically, if you can't allow the gamer to control the guns independently easily, it shouldn't be something that the gamer could do.

I like some of the ideas, like having the secondary weapon autotrack enemies.

I would think that the two weapons would use the same reticle and you would just fire them independently (left and right mouse buttons or something), and that would be intuitive and easy for the player, although it doesn't really count as independent movement as it is basically the same thing that Unreal Tournament and other games do. Autotracking would make sense, and it should be easy to change cycle through which target it tracks with a single button press.

Thanks for the replies. The user wont have two guns all the time, only on a few levels. It'd be something to differentiate from everything. Having said that, I see your point on complicated controls and hence I like the idea of the second weapon being semi-automated. For example, if you press a key (eg shift), it toggles between enemies. Also, having a different second weapon would be a great idea. I might make it so that if the user is shooting forwards with the primary gun and backwards with the secondary, they can no longer move the player until one of the guns stops shooting.

As for changing weapons, Im letting the user either scroll the mouse or press the numbers on the keyboard (by deafault....there are options to change keys). This would change their primary gun. IF the secondary gun is available, then the user holds CTRL and either presses the key, or scrolls the mouse. Would this be quite easy to get used to?

I think that sounds easy enough. Of course, I might question the use of CTRL and Shift in reverse of what you suggest. I would think of using the shift key to do similar functionality, like using uppercase instead of lower case when typing, or in this case, changing secondary weapons instead of primary weapons. I would probably use CTRL to act as a key press, like toggling through enemies.

Thats a good point GBGames. As mentioned you can set your own keys, but I think I should do what you said and have shift to select weapon by default.

Actually I have to say this all sounds extremely complicated. Even the one gun, keys and mouse cursor control will be too much for a lot of people. Two guns sounds like just about the most complicated thing ever.

You're definitely locking yourself into the hardcore audience with these complex controls - which might be okay for what you're trying to do, but don't expect to sell to the casual market.

Hmmm....I suppose the one gun method seems okay to me because Im used to playing FPS games and such. If you've ever played earthworm jim, you'd see that he can only aim in fixed positions. ( -..../.....|......\......-) hehe, sorry for the art....basically shows that he can aim horizontally, at one angle, vertically, the other angle and behind horizontally (and downwards). Would you think that this would be an easier method, since you dont use the mouse? I might carry on and release a demo and gather people's opinions, because when everythings worded, it does seem more complicated than it actually is, but I do see what you mean. :)

Abuse is controlled the way you are proposing, with keyed movement and mouse aiming. The control setup is usable by experienced gamers, but doesn't really offer anything over just keys. In theory, you could aim in one direction (accurately) while moving in another, but in practise in didn't feel like the extra control added anything extra gameplay. Perhaps your game will make the uniqueness of the control mechanism more a part of the gameplay than Abuse managed.

Metal Slug accomplishes the same thing with just keys. Metal Slugs trick is to interpolate between the distinct 8 directions so you feel like you can aim anywhere.

Also, with keyboard control I like to play with both hands on the keyboard: one hand for movement, the other for fire and jump (emulating a joypad).

You could also experiement with a mouse-only control setup, like several shareware shooters do. I don't know whether that would work.

Well, you guys are more experience in this field than I am, so Im sure you know what your talking about. Maybe what I could do, is add an option so that people who want to use the mouse can, and those who dont, can use the keyboard (via the 8-direction method). Take an extra 10 mins coding, so no biggie :D . Just curious,what control setup did metal slug use? (ie what keys controlled the player and which ones controlled the shooting)
Thanks

What control setup did Metal Slug use?The actual keys vary depending on the version you're playing and which emulator you're using. But basically, you have:

Move - left and right cursor keys
Aim - all cursor keys
Jump - L-Ctrl
Shoot - L-Alt
Bomb - L-Shift

The keys are all from one side of the keyboard because Metal Slug supported two players at once. If you're developing a single-player game you can spread the keys out more. Personally, I'd prefer all three action buttons to be under a fingertip, so something like A-S-X might be more comfortable for bomb-shoot-jump.

When you're driving the Slug, up and down rotate the tank turret.

I wouldn't take the Metal Slug setup as gospel; there is still room for improvement, and there are many more reference titles (Super Contra).

If the cursor keys aim and move, does that mean if you tried to aim diagonally upwards, you would move horizontally in that direction? Or does it stop you from moving when you shoot?

If the cursor keys aim and move, does that mean if you tried to aim diagonally upwards, you would move horizontally in that direction?
Yes, you would.

Mouse and keys together is fine for experienced gamers, but no good for Auntie.

Metal Slug's interpolation (with the heavy machine gun) works pretty well, some room for improvement, true... but even that is not simple enough for casual players, who generally can't cope with the concept of 8-way movement on the arrow keys, either. It's sad, I know.

But never mind. You've probably lost a lot of the casual audience no matter what you do - so just make sure the game is really good and you should hopefully still find an audience. I'd hate to see everyone dumb everything down to the casual level (which can be extreeeeemly dumb)

What's that Einstein quote? "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler". Something like that. Go with the bare minimum that actually works properly, and try to make the learning curve as painless and intuitive as humanly possible.

Thanks for the support. Hmm, who knows..maybe Ill release a patch to fix all control related issues :D. Hopoefully the rest of the game will be so good, unexperienced gamers forget about the controls :p