Hello Everyone,

First time to board, so let me say hi first..."Hi" ;-)

I have an idea for a game I would like to create. I know you dont know me, so I'll give a brief description.

Been programming since high school.

Published first nationally distributed game in bundle pack in 1999 called space arcade collection, game was alien invaders 2000.

Got through college

got a 9-5 job

tired of that

time to game program again - my true passion!

;-)


I’ll get right to the gameplay


You are a captain with his crewmates out in space. This is an open ended universe (mini universe) fps game. You fly around tracking trade ships, fed ships, etc, then try to seize their possessions. You do this by hunting them down, negotiating terms, or by force. It would relate much to historic pirates, as you would rather avoid the costs of warfare and use fear tactics combined with speed and agility to take possessions. During the action, you can do basic strategy like launching fighter drones and aiming your guns at their ships, firing, etc. Basically, anything you could handle doing while also in the heat of the action. This "heat of battle" comes in when you take up arms, jet pack over (or by any other means) to their ship, get inside and take the possessions aggressively or not, depending on situation.

When not in battle, you will be exploring, hiding, trading via black markets/rogue planets (these views would be simple menu selection etc…).

So basically you raid, gather their supplies, use for replenishing your own and keeping your crew happy, trade to build up ship, weapons, armor, vehicles, etc…, all for a purpose of avenging your families death and tribulation, etc…

I skipped the story and why your character does what he does in the game, what Im interested in knowing is what people would think of a game like this. I know I left out a huge mess of details (basically, 99% of game), bare with me, those will be later disbursed, I am just trying to get a basic idea of what people would think of a game like this, would you consider this a game worth marketing, does it have a niche where people would want to buy this. Leaving so many details out may spring a bunch of questions, I know, and of course, all ideas are welcome.

Thank you for your time,

Sincerely,

Scott.

Your game brings to mind Sid Meier's "Pirates!". You are basically doing "Pirates!" in space. ;)

I had a very similar game in mind, but I figured it would take decades to finish with my resources and passed up on it.

I think its a good idea. By the way, I also had a game on ths Space Arcade collection. Mine was Star Miner ;)

Anyway, there is a market for this kind of thing, but you have to carve your niche Dont just make it a low budget freelancer.
I think something that might be interesting is to reward the non combative side of it. A lot of people who play theif get a real buzz from completing a level without any violence at all. You could work this into your game. If victims were selected carefully, and you used maximum use of threats and intimidation (warning shots etc) you could have some code that rewarded the player for a peacefull takeover of an enemy ship. Also, you would have a real danger of mutiny. You would have to be strong enough to command the loyalty of your crew, but fair enough to prevent a mutiny on your own ship.

Its a big project, does it have to be an FPS?
Anyway good luck with it. In an an Idustry swamped with WW2 FPS, this is a worthwhile game idea.

Thanks for the inputs so far,

Hey cliffski, yes I remember your game in the bundle pack, good game! Ahh a great time that was, didnt make much money on the game, but man it was awesome seeing it in stores, then again, at the time, thats all I wanted, didnt really care about money. Unfortuntely, now its the priority since I'll be starting a business.

Yeah, I know this idea would be a big game. I think I can handle the challenge, I just hope it would be worth the efforts (in payment) only so that it will be the first title for a full fledged business I will be starting, and as important as it is I feel you must love the work your doing, it needs to pay the bills as well.

I really like your idea in relation to Thief, probably my fav game series of all time (got all 3). Thief just brings out not only a new concept, but an atmosphere that really makes you feel like you are there. This is how I want all my games to be. I think I definitely will consider that idea though, very cool!

Any more ideas comments, please keep em comin! ;-)

Sincerely,

Scott.

I like the general game idea, but "all for a purpose of avenging your families death and tribulation, etc… " has been so done to death, I honestly couldn't stand playing another game with a storyline like it.

Just thought to mention ;)

I'm also curious if you realise how much work in required for a game like this. I'm about 70% through my own space game, and... damn, you're talking about a litteral ton of work. I don't want to discourage you (far from it!), but I did want to give you a little reality check, if needed. Do you have anyone else in mind to work on it?

Do you have anyone else in mind to work on it?

Hopefully an army of graphics designers, a couple of musicians and at least one more coder or he'll be working on this project for decades especially if he has a full time job and a family.

May the force be with him! :)

Yep,

Just me right now, but that I of course want to change - correction - will have to change for this game to succeed. I think I can handle all the coding, but would love to get at least 1 more coder for:

To distribute the load
More experience working with other coders on same project.

As far as graphics and animation artists, this is by far my biggest concern. The sound I can handle, the voices, I can get friends to help and edit up the sounds. With a little imagination I think I can handle sound and make it sound decently professional :) . The art is the stumbling block. I was able to find artists before for other projects that I worked on (never finished, I know, you dont have to tell me, but I was in a different state of mind then, aka college, and didnt really set game dev as priority).

My plan of attack was to first get the game entirely planned out (design doc), then get the tech doc which will illistrate as much as possible what coding is needed all the way down to the functiosn required.

I want to then pursue creating a basic engine. No fancy graphics, simply models, textures, basic lighting (ugly), something I can work with.

Then I want to concentrate on gameplay/game.

Then add all fancyness to it at end.

All along these stages getting artists to build the models, textures, bump maps, GUI, whatever is needed (alot!!!) I know.

I plan on contracting out the work with maybe a very very small payment up front (say $50/model) which is nothing, but alot better then most game companies indy "amatuer" startups offer. Then offer royalties after game is created. I think this will help draw artists that are in the college range. They'll be looking for experience, and instead of drawing on just hopes of royalties, they'll at least make X amount/model, which is nothing compared to what their art is really worth (many pro artists I believe charge 750+ / model), but at least their making something off of it and able to add to their portfolios, and out of all the work for free, then get royalties startups, this will offer a little more incentive to join my team for doing contract artwork.

As far as full time job goes, I do have one now, but I realized how much I hate being a wage slave, and would wrather work for myself then someone else. Ive done alot of thinking about how to support myself during these endevours. I just turned 23, fresh outa college, still live at home. I made plans with parents to continue living their for a small fee / month, I will probably sometime be quiting my full time job and getting a part time one. I know it may sound crazy, actually it does, going from a job I just got making decent money for entry level position to leaving it and making jack, but I really have learned that I want to pursue video game career, and I dont want to be stuck at a 9-5 trying to bust out a game, as like you said that will take me forever to accomplish (I dont think a decade, but definitely a long time) Longer then Im willing to wait.

So thats my story, man do I rant ;-)

Whatcha think? Crazy, I could see why u think that way, but I do have a killer passion for game development, I do think this game will make it decent enough to at least be able to pay the bills for a couple years (with enough marketing), I know I have the talent for making a game of this type, of course, being able to finish a very good game in reasonable time is the part I must conquer.

Well ttyl and thanks again all for your input, I really appreciate it alot!

Sincerely,

Scott :cool: <-- I want to be cool like this guy!

Hmm, I'd first make a basic test engine (or even better use existing free engine), test basic gameplay and after that start design doc. If you start with design and even tech doc first they will quite probable become irrelevant after first gameplay tests...

Just my opinion.

Yep, crazy.

The plan you outlined makes it sound so simple, but the game you describe sounds like a huge undertaking. It's a space-combat sim, with FPS action, trading, diplomacy, crew and inventory management, story, and kitchen sink. It's an epic. A game of that scale would trouble a team of 50+ pros. A typical indie would be hard-pressed to develop just one of your game elements to a marketable quality. I think you're trying to do far too much.

If you're determined to do this then look for shortcuts. Don't try to write a 'complete design' (that worried me), just document what you need. No-one can write a complete game design and then use it as a manual for development; it's never so clear cut. And don't write your own engine, use an existing one.

Best.

I don't think you're crazy. I admire your attitude to push an idea as far out as you can. That kind of attitude usually separates the average game from the extraordinary. But, as admirable as that might be to me, I do think you're going to be in for a few really nasty surprises if you go ahead and try and develop the game, as you've described it right now.

Have a look at www.pixelcage.de
These guys are working on a game that's going to be released sometime after 2007. It sounds a little like your game- "Fly one of the many spacecraft and battle huge cruisers - or break through hull, grab your rocket launcher and explore the enemy's vessel in your superior battle suit!" The thing is, these guys have already put three years into their engine, and have a full-time main staff of seven guys. In an interview, they noted they've actually had help from an additional 40 people.

Obviously this is an extreme case game, with a massive development process. But the thing is, these guys have realised that to do this kind of game properly, you need some real pros, and a whole lot of time on your hands. That's why only these guys have tried tackling it. It's just too big, with too many facets. Now, no one is saying that you won't be able to somehow scale certain elements of the game, to finish it in a believable timeframe. You may just be able to do that- if you're clever. But, the thing that makes me wonder if you realise what you could be getting yourself into.

I'm in the middle of developing a space-sim, myself. It's my brother and I, and we're developing an engine (and game) from scratch. Cutting what could be a long story short- I could list a literal ton of things we couldn't have prepared ourselves for, development wise. But, we were smart about it, and created a game idea that could be scaled easily to suit almost any problem that could arise. The problem with your idea is that once written up in stone, it's not very 'scaleable friendly', and you'll find yourself stuck between a rock and hard place, without enough raw experience to back you up. I wouldn't want to put myself into the situation you're describing, and I'm a crazy optimist! :)

That's just one of about fifty points that come to mind. Whatever you do though, despite the less than assuring responses on this forum, don't can the whole thing. Just redesign it, and make it a little more... develop friendly :)

Yep, crazy.

The plan you outlined makes it sound so simple, but the game you describe sounds like a huge undertaking. It's a space-combat sim, with FPS action, trading, diplomacy, crew and inventory management, story, and kitchen sink. It's an epic. A game of that scale would trouble a team of 50+ pros. A typical indie would be hard-pressed to develop just one of your game elements to a marketable quality. I think you're trying to do far too much.

I have to agree. From the description, it sounds like a Massively Single Player Offline Role Playing Game. :) In other words, it reminds me of Star Wars Galaxies but in single player. I suggest scaling it down if you want it to see the light of day.

Some soloists/small teams have put together some fairly massive games. Just look at Derek Smart with the BattleCruiser series, or Prairie Games (2 people) and their upcoming Minions of Mirth. Difficult, time consuming, stressful, stretch-you-to-the-limits-of-despair challenging... but not impossible ;)

Before you let go off your full-time job and jump into your game design, I would recommend doing a few things. First of all, passion alone is not a recipe for success. You do need passion, but it is not enough. Secondly, from what I can understand, you never ever finished a game project before which means that you don't know the limits of your passion and patience. Being so young, you are probably inexperienced as well.

So here are a few suggestions for you if you care to read them:

* Download a few opensource games such as FreeCiv, take a look at their source code, get a feel for what large projects look and feel like...

* Try to find a job in the industry. I know it is tough, they don't pay much and so on and so forth, but you are already down at the bottom of the barrel anyway. You are willing to pay yout parents (your parents are charging you for your room?? Are they yout step parents?) and ditching your full-time job. No full time job at a game development studio could be worse than that.

* Try to keep your current job, keep saving your pennies and in the meantime, work on a small project that you CAN finish.. Like some Tetris-clone and such.. Of course it is no space sim or anything, but it will have the basic concepts that you need no matter what game you make.

* Read lots of books, websites, articles, etc. if you haven't already.

* Do NOT write code you don't need to write. Use free tools anytime you can. Take a look at SDL, Allegro, whatever you might seem like you want to use.

* There is more to selling games than just making them. Have you read Steve's articles?


I don't want to be discouraging you and your desire to succeed is admirable, but you still need to look at this realistically before you make drastic changes in your life. Just remember that you are young and you have plenty of time to do what you want to do. Working for someone else is NOT as bad as most people claim it is. Until you get the experience you need to be on your own, it is a good deal that your employer will be paying for you to build up that experience. That's not a bad deal at all! ;)

Lastly, if you have a parachute and you jump off of a cliff, I'd call that crazy. What you seem like you are doing is jumping off the cliff with no parachute at all. :) Well good luck my friend. The gravitational pull just might reverse itself before you hit the ground.

Sounds alot like Smugglers 3 from Niels Bauer but with the FPS part.

I agree with the latter advice - you are planning an undertaking that might be bigger than you had contemplated. Try completing something smaller first to get the experience of completing a game, and then come back to this. In the meantime, don't give up on whatever job you currently hold - it will probably pay much more than what you can hope to achieve from your game in the next year. Good luck.

I heartily recommend reading David RM's Indie Game Developer Survival Guide. I assure you there' so much more to the whole biz then just coding your game, no matter how small or large. This book will definitely help you make more informed decision sespecially with regards to whether it's worth quitting your day job etc.

Mind you, my team is still in the development process so we have no actual business experience in this respect. We started developing the game (similar to Starfox - see my signature link below) and we thought we could pull it off in a few months. A year and 5 months later we are still at it. We were also bold / stupid enough to create our own 3D engine, basic physics engine etc. etc. While it's an educational experience, it is not practical if you want to finish your game sooner. Our current code-complete estimate is the end of the year!

I'd like to close this post on the following note: Eventually you'll find out that technical knowledge / artistic talent will become less of an issue while the concept of discipline and persistence will actually be what will drive you to finish the goal.

Are you working on your game full or part time, Nemesis? I'm six months into development on our first game (with unique engine, kitchen sink, etc) and plan to wrap up in a month or so. But, we are working full time on it.

Just curious :)

[QUOTE=Reactor]Are you working on your game full or part time, Nemesis? I'm six months into development on our first game (with unique engine, kitchen sink, etc) and plan to wrap up in a month or so. But, we are working full time on it.
QUOTE]

I'm working part time, and I have to factor in errands for my apartment in lieu of my marriege in 11 months time! :) The techie guy in the team, who now works with me on my day job, is marrying next week (and he just finished a univeristy course) so for the last 4 months he was unable to contribute much. The music / sound guy is working at a slower pace due in part to we holding him back I admit. Finally the high-poly rendering man is busy seeking / doing contract work all over Europe and North Afrika so he's not contributing much either.

I have to admit that it is not easy with a full-time job and real-life butting in but I'm trying to manage my time as best as I can (thanks to Steve's articles and DavidRM's book mostly). The important thing is persistence and discipline.

Regrets? Perhaps we should have tackled a smaller project and got a site up and running first.. it would have given us a complete business lifecycle and might even have a semi-decent revenue stream while tackling the current project!

Hmmm... interesting. We were lucky to recieve funding for just over six months dev time (long story) and so we've managed quite a bit. I wouldn't like to have tried tackling the project part-time though. I hope things fall together for you guys.

Thanks!

Well.. once the techie guy's marriage and honeymoon are over, he *should* be able to contribute a lot more. At least he was whining how he missed working on the game as he was doing 4 months ago and he's dying to get back to it full-swing :)

Well.. once the techie guy's marriage and honeymoon are over, he *should* be able to contribute a lot more.

Nemesis,


Clearly you are not married, and your friend is clueless as to what is awaiting him... :D

Soon after marriage (and honeymoon), his and her parents will probably be pushing the newly-weds for a baby (or two). If your friend is unfortunate enough to have one, then it is going to be all downhill from there. Forget any contributions from him for the next 18-25 years. He will be tied up financially, emotionally and mentally.

I'd say force him to write as much code as he can while he is on his honeymoon. Better yet, convince his wife-to-be to become a programmer. Then you guys might have a chance. ;)

Ergo my "*" around the "should"! :)

Well.. he's onto a bet with a lot of his friends, so if he'll have a honeymoon baby he'll have to dish out a fortune in drinks i.e. it's in his best interest (and mine!) not to increase the family count for now! :D