A great article about indie game development just up!

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20040721/carless_01.shtml

By Simon Carless
[Author's Bio]
Gamasutra
July 21, 2004

Pretty good read. Though I don't agree with Jay Moore on certain points. In particular where he says you shouldn't quit your day job.

You certainly don't have to quit your day job. But if you're really serious about starting an Indie game business today instead of a few years from now, then quiting your day job is something you definitely should consider.

The problem with just doing Indie game development in your "spare" or "free" time is that real life can very easily get in the way. It's very easy for your project to be abandoned for weeks and sometimes months at a time.

When you work full-time as an Indie,

You also miss opportunities if you're not manning the ship 24/7. I know personally if I was still working at my day job I would have missed out on quite a few business opportunities by not being available for my Indie biz during regular business hours.

Also your mindset changes when you're a full-time Indie. You think less about "will I ever finish this game?" and instead concentrate more on just finishing the game and making it the best you possibly can.

But of course if you have kids and/or mortgage, then it's a lot harder to become a full-time Indie compared to a college student or someone living at home. Though it's still possible.

I just don't think Jay should totally discount quiting your day job. Obviously it's not for everyone, but personally it's the best decision I've made in a long time.

I agree, but of course depends a lot on WHAT is your actual daily job :)
I personally think that quitting my job (even if lately I was working only part-time) was the best thing I did in a while. After 2 months I released my first successful product, UBM, and my view of indie world completely changed (I've learnt more in the last few months than in 1 year).
Of course if I had a nice job that wasn't so obsessive and perhaps wasn't related to pc (going back in front of the screen after you already used pc for 8 hours at work isn't really good!) I may have considered keeping it to be more financially stable.

Anyway: if you don't have mortgage, family or other expenses, I think that you're stupid if you don't at least try to go fulltime for 1-2 years. If you fail, you can just go back doing the boring thins all we know :eek:

After 2 months I released my first successful product, UBM, and my view of indie world completely changed (I've learnt more in the last few months than in 1 year).

Hehe I also noticed how your attitude has changed in the last two months. :) Before (after your USM release) you were pretty negative about the shareware biz and thought it would take several years to make a successful Indie business. Since UBM has been released however, your posts have a very different and more positive tone. :) I guess a successful product will do that... ;)

I also agree if your "day" job isn't related to computers, then it might make it easier to do your Indie work in your spare time.

Hehe well when you switch from selling 5/month to 2/day, you make a big step :D
Anyway I realized that is not simple to have a good product, takes experience, marketing, good target research and... LUCK ;)

I'd do a part-time job if it wasn't related at all with computer. For example working as a gardeneer :) would be nice to break from the gray pc world ;) hehe

I'd quit my full time job if it weren't for the luck factor in the early years.

Cas :)

surely you cant live on 2 sales a day?

Cliffski, I sure as hell can, and enjoy my life even.

30 x 2 x 15 = 900 usd..

900 x 3.8 = rm 3420 a month..


That is more than twice what a fresh CS grad gets a month here.

900 x 3.8 = rm 3420 a month..


Yup, that's a lot of Roti Canai.

Aww, I didn't learn anything. ;).

I wouldn't exactly call it a *great* article, unless you're one of those types that want's more competetion in 'Indie World'. ;).

surely you cant live on 2 sales a day?
well... my game is 24.95$ so is about 50$ a day.
that would be 50 x 365 = about 18000$ /year
taxation here is quite heavy, I haven't made the calculation but I think in the end I'd get about 12000$ (or maybe even less).
I think I could live, alone, here with that (1000$/month net) since I don't have to pay rent... the problem is that I am going to leave this country :cool:

Cliffski, I sure as hell can, and enjoy my life even.

30 x 2 x 15 = 900 usd..

900 x 3.8 = rm 3420 a month..

That is more than twice what a fresh CS grad gets a month here.


Yep, when I was living in Ipoh, Malaysia, that's a lot of money! (Guess it's slightly more expensive living in KL.) But not here in San Diego, California!

jeez you guys are lucky. Im averaging maybe 2 sales a day, but I sure can't live on it. I bought a new car, and will be buying a new laptop and stuff like that, but I'm nowhere close to quitting my day job.

Well you live in UK and the dollar exchange mean that you lose about 50% of the value :) while for euro we lose about 20%.
Also, as you said, you just bought a new car. Cars cost a lot, and so do fuel :) it depends on how you want to live.
If I have to choose to be on a 9 to 17 job again, earning good money, but not having the freedom I have now, I choose indie :) or maybe I do the normal job only to save a bit of money.
But you're a particular case, since as you said, you love your daily job. That's a completely different matter...!

Jack, cars are the most expensive in Malaysia.

We pay 3.8 x the world price, and gets slapped with another 100 to 300
percent increase depending on CCs.

Based on cost of living we could pay up to 10 times more what you guys
pay in your country, so if you know want to know what expensive cars is all about , come to Malaysia. Your low budget sedans you get there become luxury items in Malaysia because of the protection tarriffs slapped to protect the national carmaker Proton, that is absolutely not competitive outside of Malaysia.

We pay more for protons than you guys do if you bought them at your
country and you get better qualities than us, we get all the rejects.

Aww, don't deride your own cars... I thought Proton cars are pretty good cars, as they're really Mitsubishi cars. I just hated the gross racial injustice in Malaysia that is condoned by the government, but if there wasn't such, then Malaysia would be a great place to work and live for me. C'est la vie...

Wow Jack, you're income could support 3-4 full-time people here :D Hope I get to that level soon.

heh, think how many people can support an income like the one of Mike Boeh or Steve Pavlina ;)

taxation here is quite heavy, I haven't made the calculation but I think in the end I'd get about 12000$ (or maybe even less).
country :cool:

In sweden, at least 50% goes to taxes...

In sweden, at least 50% goes to taxes...

:eek: So why do people even work? If I had to work 6 months of the year for the government I'd drive myself insane. How are the welfare benefits in Sweden? Generous?

grimreaper

Yeah in Australia we pay around 30%.... :(

Back on topic, I think it's a big question to leave your safe full time job... each person has a unique situation and strengths, if your serious you'll have to take the plunge as some stage, I think it's up to you how far from the edge you wanna leap!

:eek: So why do people even work? If I had to work 6 months of the year for the government I'd drive myself insane. How are the welfare benefits in Sweden? Generous?

grimreaper

Actually in California the tax rate is about 63% on average -- adding up federal income tax, state income tax, and sales tax. In the other states it's a comparable amount, but CA is the highest.

This is actually higher than what most medieval serfs were forced to pay.

Actually in California the tax rate is about 63% on average -- adding up federal income tax, state income tax, and sales tax.

This is not entirely accurate. For instance, the government does not take 63c for every $1 I make. If they did I would never be able to afford my mortgage. Here is a good article from http://money.cnn.com/pf/101/lessons/18/page2.html

Not every dollar of your income is taxed at the same rate.

That's because portions of your income fall into different brackets, which are assigned tax rates and increase on a graduated scale. Generally speaking, the first dollar you make will be taxed at a lower rate than the last dollar you make.

Here's an example of how income is taxed: Say you are single and report $80,000 in taxable income in 2003. In accordance with the income ranges defining federal tax brackets for single filers in 2003, the first $7,000 of your income is taxed at 10 percent; dollars $7,001 through $28,400 are taxed at 15 percent; dollars $28,401 through $68,800 are taxed at 25 percent; and dollars $68,801 through $143,500 are taxed at 28 percent.


I actually live in California. If I add up the numbers for the tax brackets that apply to me, I get Federal = 15% + State = 8% + GST = 8.5 == 31.5%. But due to the graduated scale, my effective tax rate is a lot less than that 31.5%. Thank goodness for the two kids + wife + mortgage that lets me lower my federal tax to 15% from what it could be.