Dont want to spark off a big argument here, but I was wondering, some of the guys who frequent this site and who have an indie business going seem to have some fairly hit and miss websites.

I just wondered why they dont buy any one of the millions of good looking website templates out there and use those (rather than trying to bash together some pretty nasty looking website in notepad using tables and your own hand-made graphics?).

Obviously some people have people to help out, but these web templates are VERY cheap, and would give a far better impression, for the 20 dollars or so they cost.

Am I being too harsh? It just strikes me that people arent understanding how much a poor looking or disorganised website can affect thier sales.

.Z.

Am I being too harsh?

Don't worry about that we want to hear the truth here.

Post some links to those templates. I'm keen to see them.

Well, I'll be the first to admit my site is nothing great. For me, it's just been a low priority (since I'm still several months away from completing my project). Eventually my website will become enough of a priority to warrant a re-work, but until then it's bashing and hand-made graphics. :)

I just did a google search for free web template.

Here's a good start..

http://www.freelayouts.com

They have quite a lot in terms of different graphics.

I initially found all these "templates" when looking for user interface graphics (look for free interface skins).

My point being, there are many talented people out there releasing this kind of stuff cheaply, seems a bit silly to try and tackle this kind of thing yourself. Its just so low cost its not worth messing around at.

.Z.

zoombapup:

Awesome link! I could get a professional website up in a day using this sort of thing

I think its probably the best way to go unless youve got a guy to do your website for you.

.Z.

Everybody seems to be changing their websites lately.
Our sites been in need of a change for about a year now so expect to see the new Addictive 247 website hopefully by the end of the month.
I'll post it here when it's done so it can get a good old website spanking ;)

Nice link, I downloaded a very simpe and clean template myself. I will be using it for my own website heh.

John

Well I updated my front page yesterady here:
positech games (http://www.positech.co.uk)
and i'd be interested to hear opinions on it.
nice link though, very helpfull.

cliffski your new website front page is looking good.

First thing that struck me cliffski was that your logo was too small. It doesnt "brand" the site enough.

Second thing was that there was no obvious BUY NOW buttons. In fact, it wasnt clear that you expected payment at all.

It was nice and clean layout wise, but from a marketing point of view, it doesnt urge anyone to buy your games.

.Z.

wow,
i really support this kind of methods.
you cant be both a game programmer&artist&website designer
yadda yadda yadda...

looks good, free of money
i guess ill use this myself


oh, @cliffski: look really good...

@cliffski: I agree with Z about needing buy buttons. I also think there's too much black. I'd suggest changing the background to a blue tone but leaving the game description backgrounds as black and seeing how that looks. You also favor serif fonts quite a bit, a little variety would be nice -- san-serif (Arial, Verdana) is great for headers, maybe try it bold on your game names?

@zoombapup: This is a good resource. I think it's great to get inspirations for your web site from other places, including successful sites and templates. I'd rather create the graphics and html myself (speaking personally). A site made from a cookie-cutter template might look "professional," or it might look like two dozen other amateur websites out there. If you're really marketing yourself you'll need to tweak your site graphics and html here and there to try out new things, so anyone afraid of wasting time improving their web skills will have to confront this eventually. Either that or delegate the work to someone else if you can afford it. But I see your point and people should use whatever works for them. I've bought a few books on web layout, including one that just showcases websites with particularly good designs.

Originally posted by elund
[BI'd rather create the graphics and html myself (speaking personally). A site made from a cookie-cutter template might look "professional," or it might look like two dozen other amateur websites out there.[/B]

I agree. There seems to be a "sameness" to a lot of game-related websites I've seen. A professional-looking website template might be a good place to start, but a lot of webmasters don't take it beyond that point. If one is claiming to make professional but distinctive games, they need to have a website to match that claim. And one of these days I'll put my money where my mouth is and update my site. :)

As indie developers, I treat websites as basically the main means to income.

You wouldnt turn up at a customers house/office in really scruffy clothes and expect them to think you were professional, why would you expect any more from a website?

Ive seen many mistakes like that in different forms, for instance, I saw a magazine ad promoting a new store. It had the tone of "we are a new store, just starting out, we will sell this, this and this, but we are hardcore modellers, so we only sell what WE would buy".

Now thier key mistake (in my thinking) is that they immediately put the seed of doubt in the customers mind (they only just started? how can I trust them?). Given the same situation myself, I'd have made my ad appear like I'd been around forever and was *THE* defacto place to buy the product.

One of my older threads posted a link to a book called "Submit now" which is a pretty nice looking book on the finer aspects of selling via web. I would think ANY indie that sells via thier website would be rushing to get that book! even if it doesnt teach you much, it might point out a simple flaw youve overlooked (say, not having a buy button on your frontpage).

I take the point about having individual websites and learning HTML skills etc. Thats fine, as long as the end product looks the part, it doesnt really matter how you get there.

For my own plans, I am hoping to commision some proper design work for my site. At least for a logotype. But as a fallback, I'll download and use a template graphic layout (and do some custom code, which is easier for me).

Just hope people realise that first impressions are as important for websites as it is for your games. One bad thing can be enough to deter people from digging further.

.Z.

Yep, almost forgot to say.

Your website is also your "brand". Having a strong website thats easily identified, smooth to use, doesnt have any obvious flaws etc.

It establishes your "brand" as something of quality.

Just because youre not getting paid for it, or its not costing a lot doesnt mean you can skimp on the fine details.

Ive got a lot of idea's and tools I'll be using to try and brand myself and my games (when I actually get to that stage), make it so that people associate my games, website and myself with certain values.

.Z.

I've posted about this before but I'll go ahead and repeat myself :)
If anyone's interested in having some customised work done on their sites for a no-money basis I would be happy to knock up some sample work based on what your particular needs.
I want to start up my own web design business (haven't we heard that one before) to capitalise on the web design experience I've had so far, and also because I 'm pretty good at it and it's one sideline that wouldn't stress me out completely.
But before I do anything it would be nice to get a portfolio together, and it would be nicer to do that on real websites and help some game developers out in the process - being a fledgling indie hobbiest myself.

The problem with templates is that 1) you'll still have to produce your own banner/button/link artwork etc. and 2) the result won't be geared to the marketing message you want to put out.

My email address is matthewmccambridge@hotmail.com. I'd hope to get a few replies, considering the state of some of those websites out there! (joke). Drop me a mail if you're interested. Oh, and one caveat: it would be nice, if new website work generates a lot of new sales, to receive some sort of a donation. I'd leave that up to you to judge.

I've recently created a new look myself, and am interested in what you guys think. Check it out at www.fusionapple.com.

Jordan

I really like the game pics, they're like the old cassette covers for the spectrum and commodore :)!! I think they do most of the work for you at the moment in terms of sales, that and the clear pricing and 'Info'/'Buy' buttons.

There's a lot going on, which on the one hand creates a nice buzz and on the other just feels a bit busy. A lot of warez sites are like this, or geocities homepages - you know, with the compulsory ads.

Some throwaway advice:
*Ditch the animated gif, it's probably not worth it even to help someone or create revenue. Something more discreet would serve your site better, maybe at the bottom or to the right-hand side of the page.
*You've spent some time on the text and logo, but they don't really get noticed and they don't quite gel with the ostensible 'meaning' of the title. With a name like fusion apple, you should really get tongue in cheek and provide - for instance -an industrial apple motif or something else with style and humour. Seriously :) :)
*The notices in the sidebar should not be competing with the games. Decide on a set of link buttons or style that complements your logo and get that stuff moved :)
*I don't know what Mercenary is and there's a good chance many of your customers won't either. Maybe this is something that should be dealt with in a forum? If you want to include a poll you'd be better off making it about one of your own products.
*Generally, there are too many links on the page

Having said all that, there are a lot of sites like this out there, even big commercial ones, so people won't necessarily be thrown by those things. You could probably tighten things up though :)!
Hope that's helpful rather than derrogatory. I've the feeling that you've been going for a busy look and the high-quality game bios and uniform colour scheme do calm things down a bit!

jordan1207:

I haven't played it but from your screen shots Unga Bunga looks like it would sell better than your other games.

When I was talking about a new logo, I thought of something like this (see attachment). The apple needs a little work, the text isn't perfect and the blue border is a touch strong, but you get the idea - yes it's tongue-in-cheek, but the company name has a bit of personality to it and sticks in your mind.

Thanks a lot for the advice and the logo idea mattimc :) . I do think we need a logo rehall, and I like your idea.

Thanks again for the time and effort,

Jordan

And if you really want to go wild and stylised, you could extend it to something like this. The original text might work just as well (ie. without the fraying on the edges).

Again, I like it. I think something a little more polished, but along those lines, with the apple a bit closer, and kind of "fusing" with the text, is what I'm going to go for.

Jordan

Here's the funked up logo with the original text. Glad you like the idea, hope it helps you out! Feel free to use the image btw - or even better, if you like it you could let me finish it in return for letting me link to the site as part of the portfolio I'm getting together :)
I'll understand of course if you're not interested but I have to ask, I'll need every bit of exposure for this web design company I'm planning to start up.

How 'bout this: I'll get a sketch or something to you (sometime within the next few days), and you could finish it up, and link to it as part of your portfolio.

Jordan
www.fusionapple.com

P.S. I'm assuming you're working in Photoshop?

Well, I do use photoshop a bit, especially for tablet work and some effects, but I can find my way around paintshop pro very quickly so that's what I'm using the most at the minute. Have you tried out the beta version of PaintShop Pro 8?

Your plan sounds good, send me the sketch when you've got it done and I'll see what I can come up with! By the way, I tried the logo out on a shot of your site and some changes would need to be done colour-wise to make things fit with the red of the apple. I messed about a little in paint shop and came up with a sample style that might work. The apple's a lot bigger and I've got rid of the sidebar ads :), replacing them with links (which aren't great, but show what red looks like when integrated with the menu).

One thing to be aware of, is that free layout sites typically stipulate that you are using the material for non-commercial use. To me that has always meant that if you are selling something, you cannot use their materials.

Also I do agree on the importance of this subject to an extreme degree. Many buyers will only buy a game if they look at the site and feel it is professional. They will be frightened away by anything that looks like it will take their money or by a company that doesn't provide a professional looking business front.

Hey mattimc, sorry that I didn't get back to you earlier... just been busy. Anyway, I'm still wanting to implement your logo idea on our site. Email me if you're still interested: jordan@fusionapple.com.

Thanks,


Jordan