Probably poor form to talk about it on the forum, but i'm wondering what other indie developers do about software licensing. Do you have all the software you've used on the game licensed on your computer? For example, I may have some music I recorded with a not-quite-registered MIDI program, or a model that I touched up in 3DSMax at a school lab. I've been trying to wean myself off of expensive tools and use things like PaintShopPro and MilkShape, but there are things that I've already created that I would hate to throw out. I've worked at companies that don't have their licenses in order and they usually tend to gradually purchase and register everything as the product starts to ship and make some money. I'm not sure of the legal issues I would face as an indie developer in a similar situation.

You could always save up and buy the expensive tools. If there's a will there's a way. If you really cannot afford it, then you're aiming too high.

Using someone else's registered version of 3DSmax is okay. I mean, the scool's copy is legit right? It should be fine if you do that.

If you're serious about making money on a product then you must have legit access to every piece of software you use. If you don't you're really opening yourself to losing all that hard work you put into the game. If you're caught, you may get docked all your profits. The fines are pretty hefty. Why would you ever want to risk that?

What I do is I design my games around what I can do, what I have access to. I don't have access to a team of artists, so when I design a game I take into consiteration how hard the art is going to be for one person (me) to do, and if it's going to be too hard, it's the wrong design for me. And when it comes to software, it's the same: I'm not going to design a game that requires me to steal some software to make it.

The key though is to do what you're doing: use other tools that are available for free, or use tools on the computers at the school lab. And when you run into something that just isn't realisitc, design around it.

~Hanford

Well, I think it's better to have all of your software licensed/registered to make sure that when they for some reason want to check it, everything is ok and stuff......although I don't think they will check if all your game-media has been produced with legal copies of software...;)

Originally posted by SopiSoft
Well, I think it's better to have all of your software licensed/registered to make sure that when they for some reason want to check it, everything is ok and stuff......although I don't think they will check if all your game-media has been produced with legal copies of software...;)

I don't think it's possible to check if a file was made with a program registered to you or not. What's wrong with going to a friends house who has a tool and making your model or texture there? And how will anyone know you did that? Just think about it:)

The prices on these 3d rendering packages are quite ridiculous. Many of them are more than 10,000 dollars for a single license use, and often as high as 20k. There are a few reasonably priced ones that offer similar functionality, but I really think those companies should offer discounted packages for smaller companies to help build their user base.

Originally posted by Mman
I don't think it's possible to check if a file was made with a program registered to you or not. What's wrong with going to a friends house who has a tool and making your model or texture there? And how will anyone know you did that? Just think about it:)

yeah thats right....so i dont think anyone should worry about that too much.....;)

An approach I like is to simply start with what you can afford, and reinvest your profits to upgrade your tools. Some people also do a little consulting work on the side when they need extra cash for tools.

Years ago I started with Turbo C++. Later I upgraded to Borland C++ and an art program called Aldus PhotoStyler. From there I moved to Visual C++ and Photoshop. One of the benefits of making 2D games is that you don't need to buy any 3D modeling software. I don't buy every upgrade that comes along unless there's a really good reason. For instance, I used Photoshop 3.0 for years before eventually upgrading to 6.0.

It's very important to keep development costs down if you want your indie game to make a profit. If you spend $2000 on development tools, you've already spend your first 100 sales (if the game is $20). In the beginning I made the mistake of spending too much money (buying MSDN subscriptions, grabbing every upgrade as soon as it came out), but now I upgrade much more slowly, sticking with the same tools for longer. I also consider that each upgrade will cost time to learn the new features/interface.

Another idea is to take advantage of shareware and freeware tools. The ASP has tons of member discounts, and I've taken advantage of many of them. Many members give other members their software for free. For instance, every ASP member got a free WinZIP registration a while ago. Plus it isn't uncommon for members to trade registrations to each others' programs.

Just one thing, CHECK THE SOFTWARE LICENSES on education software. Depending how you get it (from uni) or where you get it (MS has several education products being sold differently in countries) it may or may not allow you to use it for comercial use.

Educational licenses are for that, learning, most of the times you cant sell stuff you made with that.


About companies not having their sw registered:
a) they are hyprocrites
b) they should have all software licensed. there has been more than one case where companies have been fined 100,000s of dollars for having illegal WinZip copies (yes, it is true)


About using your school software, again, check with the school. Most contracts/licenses are learning only (sort like Maya Learning Edition thingy) where they aren't allowed to use it for doing any business stuff.


About using your friends computer, if he has a licecense, its ok, as long as it is a valid business license (unless the EULA says otherwise but I never saw that) since as long as the license is valid for that computer, anyone can use it (for example, if you fire a person, will you need to get a new license ? No).


While it isn't possible to check files for illegal software, it is possible to check EXE's for Visual C++ serial number, which includes information about VC (which version). I'm not sure if it is possible to get information about learning editions or not, but I would sure bet on it being so.


Please guys, you are software developers, so don't pirate stuff. If 3DS Max is too expensive, use Blender or MilkShape. If PhotoShop is out of your reach, use Paint Shop Pro. Can't afford Visual C++, use DevC.


Bruno

I don't think anybody here said they use pirated software, we are just pointing out the obvious that you can't check the files. I think you are right about the serial number. Which brings me to my next question- is it legall to use a version of VC that is registered to one of my family members, ie: my brother? Or do I have to unistall his copy and reinstall it with my name in the register info?

Originally posted by Nick Bischoff
Ok, I purchased JASC's PaintShopPro 6 for $500 (not the latest Photoshop but who cares)

Do you mean $50? Because if you paid $500 for PSP, I've got some news for you that you probably aren't going to like :)

I hope he meant "Adobe Photoshop." :)

I think if you develop your software with pirated programs, you loose all rights to complain about your own software being pirated.

The problem with many "potential" indie developers is they dream far greater than reality. 3D Max is way too expensive, but it also has WAY more features than you need. There are excellent tools out there at a reasonable price. Check out Hash Animation Master. It's $199, and it does more than what I need.

I think many people get caught up in the "That's the program 'such-n-such' company used, so that must be the program I need to create my game". You need to look at what you actully need, then look at the tools in your price range. I garuntee if you look at what you actually need, you will find the right tool.

My studio:

Graphics: Hash AM - $199 ( I LOVE THIS PROGRAM)
Code: VC++ 6 - $99
Music: There are tons of FREE MOD music makers. I use Logic Audio, which is expensive, but music is a hobby of mine, so it's worth the money.

But all in all you can have a complete, legit studio that can create top quality games at $300.

My mountain bike cost more than that, and that's just a hobby that has no potential to make me any money. So $300 in a fun hobby that has potential to make money, is not a bad deal. Don't eat out for a month, and you have the money.:rolleyes:

One thing to keep in mind is that game dev tools are tax deductible. So if you have other sources of income, turning such a hobby into a small business can save you some money off your taxes, even if your business loses money in the beginning.

I use cakewalk home studio for music. Not too pricey. I foreget exactly but I think it was around 100-200$

I use truespace for 3d stuff (200++ depending on the version - latest versions are 700 or more but that's not too much compared to something like softimage etc....) There are also POVRAY based modellers like moray (http://www.stmuc.com/moray/)

For character animation there's Poser4.0 - Not toooo pricey, but I don't use this directly at the moment.

For 2D art I use ArtGem and Paint Shop Pro. (artgem is a windows deluxe paint for people who know that app from the amiga and early pc versions)