View Full Version : WARNING: Akella does not pay
berserker
03-26-2009, 10:27 AM
Ok, recently we've had an issue with this Russian retail publisher. I thought they are kinda dead/bankrupt now but since Nexic told me they approached him with retail offers I think I should post a warning here.
The story:
Early 2008 we've signed agreement with them to distribute 10 of our titles in xUSSR retail market with clearly defined advance amounts payable in 2 chunks - after getting masters and after releasing CDs to market.
We've got first part around May and CDs were released on Summer. I saw CD cases in retail in Summer but they were not in a hurry to pay rest of the advance. In November I asked about the other part of the advance - they told me they have financial troubles and will try to pay by the end of the year. In early 2009 I contacted them again and they told me that due to recession local retail market declined heavily especially in casual games sector and they are unable to pay past advance debts. They offered me to "restructurize" that outstanding advance (in other words - decrease it to some laughable sum) which I naturally rejected.
Of course I could sue them but lawyer fees will cost me more than they owe me. Therefore I warned them that I let everyone in the casual developer community know about their behaviour. They told me that most of their partners are aware and have understanding about that (sneaky) stuff.
Well here I am to warn fellow developers - beware of this publisher. I don't know if they are in financial trouble or not, but that's their own problems, they shouldn't sign agreements they are unable to execute and I don't want to "restructurize" their debt out of my pocket.
magallanes
03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
Sadly many (if not all) publisher will try to not to pay you.
Can you group other developer and do a collective demand against this publisher?.
Executrix
03-26-2009, 10:47 AM
You're not the only one who has had trouble with Akella. http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=11363
cliffski, maybe you could further update us?
jpoag
03-26-2009, 10:50 AM
Down with akella, let them die like dogs.
berserker
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
jpoag,
You got it all wrong... This is why I put "restructurization" in brackets. Basically they just wanted me to redeem that debt. And furthermore they shouldn't have offered that deal in the first place cause I could sign up with other retailer.
Like firing an employee: it's cheaper to retain an employee than to fire and rehire a new one (even in Ukraine).
No it isnt, and I felt it myself. It's cheaper to retain good employee, but it is too expensive to keep average one.
berserker
03-26-2009, 10:56 AM
You're not the only one who has had trouble with Akella. http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=11363
cliffski, maybe you could further update us?
Yes, I saw that thread, but it's almost 2 years old. We need update on this from people who dealt with them recently.
luggage
03-26-2009, 11:36 AM
Sadly many (if not all) publisher will try to not to pay you.
This is nonsense - there are many reputable publishers out there.
jpoag
03-26-2009, 12:17 PM
Down with akella, let them die like dogs.
berserker
03-26-2009, 12:28 PM
jpoag,
I made this thread not to ask advice on how to act in this situation but to warn other developers in the first place. Those money are not crucial to our existance, we can live off other venues and more trustworthy partners. I can't see where all those advices about collection agencies and employees coming from so please don't derail this thread.
Jack Norton
03-26-2009, 12:31 PM
This is nonsense - there are many reputable publishers out there.
If we're talking about retail, I bet you can't reach 5 names (which can be confirmed by people from this forums).
luggage
03-26-2009, 03:42 PM
If we're talking about retail, I bet you can't reach 5 names (which can be confirmed by people from this forums).
How am I supposed to do that? I've worked with plenty more than 5 retail publishers and they've all paid. That's a long way from "most, if not all".
Sitting here and saying publishers are bad and don't pay is firstly untrue and secondly doesn't get us anywhere. Publishers aren't bad - just like developers aren't bad. Having worked for more than one developer who went into publishing I can vouch for how much it costs and how difficult it is to get games into stores.
jpoag
03-26-2009, 04:17 PM
I apologize for the inconvenience.
luggage
03-26-2009, 04:46 PM
James: Sorry, my post wasn't aimed at you, nor even the OP. Just the statements and mindset that 'all publishers are evil' isn't true.
How am I supposed to do that? I've worked with plenty more than 5 retail publishers and they've all paid. That's a long way from "most, if not all".
Sitting here and saying publishers are bad and don't pay is firstly untrue and secondly doesn't get us anywhere. Publishers aren't bad - just like developers aren't bad. Having worked for more than one developer who went into publishing I can vouch for how much it costs and how difficult it is to get games into stores.
Seconded. From all my years in the industry only one publisher failed to pay us, and that was a final milestone payment before they went bankrupt...
1 bad out of 25 ... evil in general is a bit of an overreach.
berserker
03-27-2009, 02:41 AM
Come on guys, don't turn this thread into bashing all publishers. We have trustworthy retail publishing partners and this is thread about publisher which is not one of them.
cliffski
03-27-2009, 03:40 AM
akella currently owe me some money, but its not a lot, and last time they did pay me. So we shall see.
MerscomMan
03-28-2009, 06:20 PM
We are finding that several of the retail distributors and publishers we worked with in the past (some for 10+ years) are no longer worth dealing with. I really recommend you check a partner's RECENT payment history before entering into any deals these days, good companies a year or two ago may not be anymore.
jcottier
03-29-2009, 10:52 AM
We are finding that several of the retail distributors and publishers we worked with in the past (some for 10+ years) are no longer worth dealing with. I really recommend you check a partner's RECENT payment history before entering into any deals these days, good companies a year or two ago may not be anymore.
Are you talking WorldWide or just Russia?
JC
When dealing with territories like Russia or Asia it's vitally important to get money upfront. Akella paid me but there was a bit of hassling and delay involved, so you may still see a check in the future.
In my experience everyone stalls until the last possible minute to pay. That's not just a game publisher issue, it's standard business practice these days.
MerscomMan
03-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Are you talking WorldWide or just Russia?
JC
We've had more problems than in the past in Russia, but also some west European territories and even in the United States (Microgistix, the exclusive provider of jewel case product to Best Buy, just went bankrupt and was several quarters late in paying us). What's surprising is we had never had issues before with Russia (there have always been deadbeats in the US and Europe) and now even that is gone:)
berserker
03-29-2009, 10:55 PM
In my experience everyone stalls until the last possible minute to pay. That's not just a game publisher issue, it's standard business practice these days.
There is a difference in delaying and telling you won't get any money, right?
cliffski
03-29-2009, 11:41 PM
In my experience everyone stalls until the last possible minute to pay. That's not just a game publisher issue, it's standard business practice these days.
I don't. I never employ someone or do a deal until I know I have the money in advance. I pay them on the day that money is due, with no exceptions.
As a result, I've never had people uneasy about doing contract work for me. It's a win-win.
If you think working with someone is profitable, you should do what you can to ensure that business relationship goes well, and that includes paying on time.
People who are good, be it developers or contractors, can pick and choose who to work with, and they won't choose to work with people who delay payment.
MerscomMan
03-30-2009, 04:54 AM
I had an idea. Would it be possible to create something in this forum where people post about deadbeat publishers, portals, etc? I am not sure of the legality of it (are there liable issues) but it would be great if people could exchange information about partners who do not honor agreements, my guess is it would make the industry better just because people would not want to make the list.
It could be something like Angie's List or eBay, where people rate the partner. Just an idea.
Acord
03-30-2009, 01:44 PM
Blacklisting? Happens all the time, but I think if such a thing is going to be on a public forum, then those doing the blacklisting/complaint need to provide proof of violated contract terms in the posts just to cover their legal butts. Do I think such a thing should be placed here?
Yes, yes I do.
The caveat is that the forums would need to legally cover their asses too - IE, "we're not responsible for the actions of our members".
magallanes
03-30-2009, 02:05 PM
Come on guys, don't turn this thread into bashing all publishers. We have trustworthy retail publishing partners and this is thread about publisher which is not one of them.
Ok, not every publisher but still there are a plenty of rotten apples in the market, and the amount depend in the country/global location.
And yes, +5 year old publisher usually are more trusty than a recent create company.
Jack Norton
04-10-2009, 06:34 AM
I got contacted by them today. My reply was a link to this thread...
JGOware
04-10-2009, 07:34 AM
"we're not responsible for the actions of our members".
I'm not sure that actually works in a court of law. ;)
Birukoff
04-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Note from the Andrei Birukov, the owner of the account:
Maxim is Akella's employee. He asked me to provide my forum account to reply in this thread, since he worried that he won't receive registration confirmation e-mail soon enough, and didn't want to postpone it till Monday. Please, note that everything below is Maxim's words. I myself am not affiliated with Akella since I have left it in 2007. I hope on Monday Maxim will be able to respond with his own account.
I work for Akella and Birukoff has kindly provided me with his account for this message only. Unfortunately, confirmation of my registration requires two next days.
I would like to clarify the real situation. I think there is no need to mention that WW crisis adversely affects an economy of the entire World. Here is Russia we faced with that problem as well:
First of all our national currency (rubles) has devaluated with 1.5 times,
Second- customer demand and sales of our products has noticeably dropped down. Actually sales (in rubles) decreased by 40%. Our incomes, if to express in dollars or Euro - as of about 40% of incomes we had a year ago in the same quarter.
Third- our distributors (large trading networks) fail to pay in time- crisis affects their business as well and there is nothing surprising with it. Usually these delays are measured in months- so our incomes are also protracted in time.
The fact is that crisis is a common problem for all market participants and there are no exceptions.
Because of that every of these participants has to be flexible to correspond to the present reality of the market.
Akella has to reconsider its budgets and proposals as well. We aren’t able to meet the demands one (or even half a year) old, since these demands just don’t correspond to the present reality. Because of that we must to "restructurize" our advances, proposed more than half a year ago.
We discussed the problem with tens of our partners regarding more than 200 titles (these are partners from independent indies to major international publishers). And we can say that all of them clearly understand the current situation, moreover they agreed to "restructurize" their advances.
Author of this topic is one partner who refused to correspond to demands of the market (those were not OUR requests, but demands of the current economical situation). So this is not our, but his problem. It’s he, who informed us about his intention to disclose all our financial obstacles to third parties. It’s he, who refused to understand and correspond to the present reality and this tough situation. I think that’s an inadequate behavior.
We don’t think that our restructurization would receive positive comments, but as I said everybody is involved into this situation and everybody should correct its business structure. And this is not a good idea to abstract your mind from the reality.
Akella is doing a successful business since 1993 and always carried out its commitments in time and it has a strong intention to do it in the future, especially when the crisis calms down.
Also I would like to mention once again that ALL market participants are in the same conditions- and actually payment delays and non-payments on time are subjects of any Russian publisher to a greater or lesser extent.
Maxim
Sybixsus
04-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Author of this topic is one partner who refused to correspond to demands of the market (those were not OUR requests, but demands of the current economical situation). So this is not our, but his problem.
At this point, I'm going to disagree with you. Presumably there is a contract between the two parties and you (or the market, apparently) can demand what you want, but it is not the fault of one of the parties to a contract if he thinks that both parties should honor that contract.
You're presumably responding because this thread damages your company's reputation, but by showing up with the attitude that a contract isn't worth the paper it's written on and anyone who has signed one should expect to agree to whatever you demand at a later date, you're actually doing more damage, not less.
In all honesty, everything you say about the market is true. Everything you say about people not paying you is (I'm guessing) true. Most developers on here are going to realize that and though they might naturally side with a developer not getting paid, they're not actually going to form a bad opinion of you if they know that you're really trying your best. But you need to eat a bit of humble pie and take an apologetic stance, not come on here blaming a developer for not bending over when you ask him to. If you rethink that reply and try again with a slightly more humble tone, you might yet find developers can respect you for being honest.
Maupin
04-10-2009, 10:34 AM
Author of this topic is one partner who refused to correspond to demands of the market (those were not OUR requests, but demands of the current economical situation). So this is not our, but his problem.
Excellent response and I'm sure it will be very helpful to developers who are considering entering into a contract with you.
AlexWeldon
04-10-2009, 10:46 AM
Agree with above two posters (Maupin is, I assume being sarcastic/ironic). The global economic crisis may not be your fault... but you entered into a contract with someone, and it is your responsibility to hold up your end of the bargain, or, if that is impossible, declare bankruptcy. If people are failing to pay you, then again, it is your responsibility to pursue them and get the money, rather than passing the problem on to the people you're supposed to be paying.
Imagine I told my landlord, "Sorry, economic crisis. I'm going to have to insist that we restructurize my rent. I'll give you $300 every two weeks instead of $900 at the beginning of each month. Take it or leave it." What do you think he'd say?
The nature of international business is such that it's very hard to take legal action against people not holding up their end of a deal. Consequently, reputation is very important. You may be able to get away with screwing developers in the short term, but if this is the sort of behaviour you become known for - and you consistently cop this "not our problem" attitude publicly - you may quickly find that few devs are going to be willing to work with you. Trust, once lost, is very hard to regain.
Acord
04-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Well, this is an underlying issue with a LOT of companies right now. At some point, it became acceptable to practice cash flow accounting, where companies rely on money/debts coming in from other companies and use it to plan in advance. Hence, your accounting is based on your cash flow - not the actual money that your company has.
This idea went into vogue sometime in the eighties - along with the mullet.
While this offers a small competitive advantage in terms of speed and flexibility, it creates a serious susceptibility to market downturns. In other words, you have traded stability and reliability for the opportunity to grow faster, and it has not panned out.
So in this situation, your partners aren't paying, so you can't pay. If you get the chance in the future(when the crisis is over, if you're still around) then you might consider a more traditional method of accounting that will make your company less susceptible to the fortunes of the market.
Still, it is nice to see an honest response from somebody.
Pogacha
04-10-2009, 01:54 PM
"I don't have any problem ... the people I owe money have problems" :D
cliffski
04-11-2009, 02:00 AM
They owe me money too BTW... I don't care if Russia is in meltdown. A contract is a contract.
Sell some furniture, or even the PC you use for email, I don't care.
Pay your debts.
Adrian Cummings
04-11-2009, 02:45 AM
I quickly read this thread but have never dealt with Akella directly.
I guess at least you got an answer? and tho not ideal by any means, that in itself is a lot more than some so called publishers would give you... contract or not sadly.
Usually/sadly down the many years, I have found publishing contracts not to be worth the paper they are written on when it comes down to this level at least. I reckon if they owe you money you are very unlikely to see it now as a rough guess?
Sucks = yes of course but that is the planet we live on.
If they don't end up paying they might as well close up shop anyway as I doubt anybody would use them twice? - well I would'nt anyway.
Maxim
04-13-2009, 12:42 AM
Two days have passed since my registration and I’m able to respond with my own account. Andrei, thank you for your help!
Excellent response and I'm sure it will be very helpful to developers who are considering entering into a contract with you.
I’m afraid I wasn’t understood correctly. “So this is not our, but his problem” – this is a quotation taken out of context of the whole message. That doesn’t relate to payment delays or restructurization, but to those of partners who don’t understand (or refuse to understand) the current situation on the market.
papillon
04-13-2009, 06:02 AM
If you're admitting you can't pay people at the moment because of the economic mess, then surely any developer who understands that knows that this is not a good time to sign any contracts with your company...
cliffski
04-13-2009, 09:49 AM
Like I say, if akella have debts. Sell something.
You sold my game, presumably you got paid, and if you didn't you have factoring companies that paid you a fraction.
In which case, pay the devs out of the fraction.
Or become a company no indie dev will ever deal with again. Theres not much future in that.
Desktop Gaming
04-13-2009, 11:27 AM
Note from the Andrei Birukov, the owner of the account:
Maxim is Akella's employee. He asked me to provide my forum account to reply in this thread, since he worried that he won't receive registration confirmation e-mail soon enough, and didn't want to postpone it till Monday. Please, note that everything below is Maxim's words. I myself am not affiliated with Akella since I have left it in 2007. I hope on Monday Maxim will be able to respond with his own account.
I work for Akella and Birukoff has kindly provided me with his account for this message only. Unfortunately, confirmation of my registration requires two next days.
I would like to clarify the real situation. I think there is no need to mention that WW crisis adversely affects an economy of the entire World. Here is Russia we faced with that problem as well... <snip>
But you moved the goal posts. You signed a deal then expected the other party to accept changes to the terms, and fair play to him if he did not want to. Why should he? You're the ones who caused the situation and its your responsibility to pay him what you agreed.
Sorry, but you signed the deal, fully aware of what your financial situation was. The buck stops with you. The global recession has been on the radar for over two years now. Whose fault is it if YOU didn't see it coming? Certainly isn't Berserker's fault.
You owe him and you should pay him as per the deal you signed. If you can't pay your dues, you're effectively bankrupt and you should stop writing cheques that your ass can't cash, with immediate effect.
cliffski
05-07-2009, 09:04 AM
An update.]
Akella still owe me money, and now aren't replying to email.
Typical publishers I guess.
Anyone had any luck extracting money from overseas publishers who do a runner?
Anyone had any luck extracting money from overseas publishers who do a runner?
If you've issued an invoice, and you've a contract with our Russian friends, I'd start looking for a local debt collector.
I did that with an Indian company last year - the debt collector will take 20-25% of the amount owed, but it's better than 100% of nothing :D
MacMan45
05-07-2009, 03:31 PM
Akella still owe me money, and now aren't replying to email.
Maybe they took your advise & sold the PC they were writing emails with!
Sell some furniture, or even the PC you use for email, I don't care.
:D
Obscure
05-07-2009, 04:38 PM
If you've issued an invoice, and you've a contract with our Russian friends, I'd start looking for a local debt collector.
I did that with an Indian company last year - the debt collector will take 20-25% of the amount owed, but it's better than 100% of nothing :D
Completely agree - especially for small amounts like cliffski's $1,000. If the amount was 10k or 50k or 100k then it may be worth pursuing it through the courts but for small amounts that isn't viable.
Using a debt collector may cost you 20-25% but you get +50% in satisfaction knowing that a pitbull is hounding the company that didn't pay and screwing up their credit rating. If there are several developers on here who are owed money it might well be worth getting together and finding a single collection company willing to chase all your debts in one go. Makes it more worthwhile for the collection company and you may be able to negotiate a smaller % as a result.
cliffski
05-07-2009, 11:40 PM
Aha interesting. Has anyone here used a Russian debt collection company before they would recommend?
electronicStar
05-10-2009, 09:18 AM
Russian debt collection company
Why does it sound so sinister?:p
Acord
05-10-2009, 09:41 AM
In Russia, debt collects you?
cliffski
05-10-2009, 12:56 PM
These guys are ignoring emails informing them of breach of contract.
As far as I can tell they are criminals.
Don't ever sign deals with them.
retail is dead for indies, basically. Too many thieves.
Jack Norton
05-10-2009, 02:00 PM
retail is dead for indies, basically. Too many thieves.
pfuit fool, you know nothing! just ask luggage:
This is nonsense - there are many reputable publishers out there.
:D
Jokes apart, in the past I was doing retail deals EVERY YEAR (and SEVERAL). Since 2007, basically stopped, and I think I made my best games lately...
Maybe because retail sales are on free-fall and ESD is going up like crazy.
Obscure
05-10-2009, 11:41 PM
These guys are ignoring emails informing them of breach of contract.
While they are clearly in the wrong it would be worth double checking the "Notices" section of your contract just to make sure you are legally covered. I have never seen a contract which allowed notices to be issued via email (or if they did they always required a snail mail copy). Every contract I have seen requires that notice be issued by mail or via fax (registered mail being best as it provides proof of delivery). If you haven't issued a notice as per the contract then then party in breach can claim not to have been notified.
cliffski
05-11-2009, 01:00 AM
the party in breach are just thieves. lets be honest, akella are sat on a beach somewhere laughing at us.
Never again.
Desktop Gaming
05-11-2009, 01:15 AM
Fly to Russia and steal all their vodka and furry hats.
There's a handy map on their website.
cliffski
05-11-2009, 01:22 AM
I'll just never do business with them ever again, and ensure everyone I meet knows how things went.
It's crystal-interactive all over again.
Do retail publishers not comprehend that at the end of the day, we just do not need them. Act like this, and they will be looking for jobs as plumbers.
Adrian Cummings
05-11-2009, 03:06 AM
These guys are ignoring emails informing them of breach of contract.
As far as I can tell they are criminals.
Don't ever sign deals with them.
retail is dead for indies, basically. Too many thieves.
That is very true these days and also a very sad fact!
There used to be some ok money in retail for indies but 99% of the time it's full of 'make money and bugger off with it quick' small time crims now!
Desktop Gaming
05-11-2009, 03:26 AM
It's crystal-interactive all over again.*twitch* :mad:
Don't speak their name in front of me. You want me back on Prozac?
Dyno Kid
05-18-2009, 04:31 AM
I "JUST" got an email from these guys too, directed them to this thread and said no thanks :)
Darren.
jcottier
05-18-2009, 04:48 AM
I "JUST" got an email from these guys too, directed them to this thread and said no thanks :)
Darren.
This doesn't sound like a clever way to do business...
The lesson you should have learn from this thread is that people might never send you money they aggree to pay you in the future. The solution to this is to ask for advance payement as early as possible. This is what you should do for ANY retail deals, with ANY retail publisher. In most case (99.99%), the only money you will see are the advance. So make sure you do get them.
Akella people, as you are probably reading this thread ;) if you want to contact me for my games, at least I would listen to what you have to offer.
JC
cliffski
05-18-2009, 04:50 AM
Akella have paid me today :D
Jack Norton
05-18-2009, 05:00 AM
In most case (99.99%), the only money you will see are the advance. So make sure you do get them.
In most cases (99.99%) they'll refuse an advance payment or simply disappear.
Anyway compared to online sales, retail deals are such a small amount of money that isn't even worth the effort anymore.
jcottier
05-18-2009, 05:10 AM
In most cases (99.99%) they'll refuse an advance payment or simply disappear.
This was never the case with my personal experience. I always manage to get paid (at least 60% of the advance) before the game get cheaped.
Anyway compared to online sales, retail deals are such a small amount of money that isn't even worth the effort anymore.
Again, it depends... I made $20k last year with retails deals and software bundles. This is still pretty good money for the little time spent dealing with this.
JC
Dyno Kid
05-18-2009, 05:38 AM
Sorry JC i should of explained i already have a worldwide retail deal with a well known UK publisher so couldn't of gone with them anyway.
Nice that people have been paid eventually...glad to hear that.
Darren.
Mattias Gustavsson
05-18-2009, 06:37 AM
Akella have paid me today :D
That's great, good that it worked out :)
Would you consider dealing with them again in the future though?
Maxim
05-18-2009, 06:53 AM
Akella have paid me today :D
Yes, we made payment, so please, don’t use the word “thieves” referring to Akella- we owe you nothing now. Btw- we got your email with some information related to your intention to terminate the contract on 8 of May at 18:55. Actually, nobody was at work that time- that was a last day of week, I think you understand. And we had a holiday here in Russia that weekend- Day of Victory, so Monday was a day off as well. So please, don’t think that we neglected your email.
And I just would like to mention once again (not only for cliffski, but for all, who is ready to listen to advice of the company, which has 16 years of experience on the Russian market): crisis affects ALL participants of the market, all are involved in that process and everybody are a link of that common chain: developers, publishers, distributors, mediators of different kind… And this is really tough time for all of them, but we are honest to our partners and are open concerning our problems.
Adrian Cummings
05-18-2009, 07:46 AM
Akella have paid me today :D
Good show! but a somewhat painful one eh? :rolleyes:
berserker
05-18-2009, 08:33 AM
Well, I must note that I have NOT been paid still...
coconut76
05-29-2009, 03:37 AM
This was never the case with my personal experience. I always manage to get paid (at least 60% of the advance) before the game get cheaped.
Again, it depends... I made $20k last year with retails deals and software bundles. This is still pretty good money for the little time spent dealing with this.
JC
Hello,
I'm very surprised that you can make $20000 last year with retails deals. I'm searching and searching for retail publisher but they are very difficult to find.
If you can communicate some of them, it will be interesting.
Thanks in advance.
Desktop Gaming
05-29-2009, 09:00 AM
Yes, we made payment, so please, don’t use the word “thieves” referring to Akella- we owe you nothing now. Btw- we got your email with some information related to your intention to terminate the contract on 8 of May at 18:55. Actually, nobody was at work that time- that was a last day of week, I think you understand. And we had a holiday here in Russia that weekend- Day of Victory, so Monday was a day off as well. So please, don’t think that we neglected your email.
And I just would like to mention once again (not only for cliffski, but for all, who is ready to listen to advice of the company, which has 16 years of experience on the Russian market): crisis affects ALL participants of the market, all are involved in that process and everybody are a link of that common chain: developers, publishers, distributors, mediators of different kind… And this is really tough time for all of them, but we are honest to our partners and are open concerning our problems.
You might have paid Cliffski, but he wasn't the one who started this thread.
Berserker claims that as of yesterday, you still haven't paid up. Is it still a public holiday? Was it a public holiday five weeks ago when he first raised the issue here?
Oh, and you shouldn't discuss personal email correspondance on a public forum. Very unprofessional.
Maxim
06-05-2009, 02:29 AM
You might have paid Cliffski, but he wasn't the one who started this thread.
Berserker claims that as of yesterday, you still haven't paid up. Is it still a public holiday? Was it a public holiday five weeks ago when he first raised the issue here?
Oh, and you shouldn't discuss personal email correspondance on a public forum. Very unprofessional.
Unprofessional is to disclose business terms as berserker and some other participants do. Actually all this thread is unprofessional, and you should notice, that this thread wasn’t posted by me.
To be precise berserker had no right to start this discussion according conditions of our contract.
At the same time we would like to draw berserker’s attention that the information he communicates here is considered as confidential and therefore while he accuses us in non-performance of the agreement he therefore breaching the agreement itself.
To be precise berserker had no right to start this discussion according conditions of our contract.
Just as well he did, though, because now many developers are right to be wary of doing business with you.
At the same time we would like to draw berserker’s attention that the information he communicates here is considered as confidential and therefore while he accuses us in non-performance of the agreement he therefore breaching the agreement itself.
So, instead of paying your business partner and resolving the situation, you decide to nit-pick about clauses in your contract. The contract you've breached by not paying your partner.
I think any developer reading this thread, and your responses in particular, know exactly what to do should they be approached by your company. Well done.
Maxim
06-05-2009, 05:18 AM
Just as well he did, though, because now many developers are right to be wary of doing business with you.
So, instead of paying your business partner and resolving the situation, you decide to nit-pick about clauses in your contract. The contract you've breached by not paying your partner.
I think any developer reading this thread, and your responses in particular, know exactly what to do should they be approached by your company. Well done.
We kindly asked our partner to make concessions and try to settle a question jointly. So that was followed by a rude reply and threats. So here is a result of those threats- this very thread, where third parties are discussing our confidential business terms.
But as you can see we are open and don’t deny that problems, which EVERY market participant has today, exist. Do you suppose honesty is a synonym of unprofessional performance?
DavidR91
06-05-2009, 05:47 AM
where third parties are discussing our confidential business terms.
If you don't hold up your end of the bargain (payment) then don't expect the other parties to do so either - irrespective of the "market conditions" etc.
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