Do MMOs give you a headache?

I find that visceral gameplay is the most satisfying kind for me. The culminations of smaller victories in an FPS or RTS replace the persistence that I used to enjoy in MMOs. These days, if I get the chance to play anything for an extended amount of time, its most likely Gears of War 2. Like an MMO, I interact with hundreds of players each night. But it's a test of skill more than dedication to the game.

I'm with elias4444 in that I enjoy the premise of EVE Online, but I prefer to play my games, not work in them.

If you're interested in the long version, I'll spill the beans on why I put MMO's down for good about 4 years ago and haven't really looked back since.

I played a lot of WoW when it was first released.

I noticed that more I played WoW, the more time WoW wanted from me. Higher levels meant more complicated and longer quests (that don't save progress), more inventory management, and more time spent going to remote locations in the game.

The more friends that played along with me, the more time WoW wanted from me. As they increased levels, I felt compelled to increase my levels to keep up. If I leveled faster, I had to help them level up. Maybe I'd even start new characters for new friends playing the game.

As the months went on, WoW kept me engaged by insisting that I had made so much progress. Why let it all go to waste? It's madness to think that a game isn't a waste of time (albeit a good waste).

Well, I was in the military, and one day WoW had to go away and stay away for awhile. We still had video games, but no internet. It was like rehab.

I played other games. Games that went to sleep when I did. No nagging persistence asking me to come back to them all the time. I found myself enjoying gaming again. Instead of worrying about who gets the next loot drop, or I concerned myself with how to defeat my friends instead. I could play for 10 minutes, 2 hours, or all night. By the time I got back to WoW, I felt like the game went on without me.

Sure, I could have worked really hard to catch up, but I'd been working really hard lately, and when I got home, the notion of working some more was no longer appealing.

 

I love how you don't leave a room for exceptions when saying "MMO games are all about that stupid gameplay!". When was the last time you've been to mmosite.com?

 

The problem is that MMOs are just MUDs, and most of the principle people involved in MMO development come from a MUD background (Raph Koster, etc.). MUDs are more about societal elements like group behavior and economy and less about actual gameplay mechanics. That's why MMO mechanics are so simple e.g. wearing fire armor against the fire dragon == OMGZ DEEP GAMEPLAY.

I do think that one of these days a more game-oriented dev team will find a way to bring traditional game mechanics into a massive persistent world, and with the right marketing and business model they probably have a good chance of being wildly successful. I personally won't take up another MMO until that happens

 

Indeed! Their previous MMO, City of Heroes, was already a step in that direction (and, not surprisingly, I liked the action in CoH a lot LOL).

 

MMOs generally bore the living crap out of me aswell. Can't take anymore anime/fantasy stuff. With my own MMO I tried to combat the boredom factor by:

- Having a non standard genre
- Making the game play action packed and skill based
- Making the focus on trade and economy rather than leveling up
- Having high EXP reward "events" which allow casual players to stay competitive

Steps in the right direction, but the net result is still mass grinding.

 

Well, just to play devils advocate a little.
One of the biggest reasons AAA MMOs are so simple is because MMOs are notoriously difficult to balance.

Even simple small changes which would just have a slight effect in a traditional single or even LAN sized multiplayer game, can cause effects which are magnified hugely when you add in persistence and 1,000,000's of players.

On top of that MMOs aren't really that old.
I mean yes we've had MUDs for years and browser based games after that but compared to the number of single player games over the years they're a young genre and there's a lot still to learn.

So most designers will purposely keep things simple because they have little base line to follow and the slightest change can destroy everything.

I think over time we'll see the best MMO designers learning from the mistakes of earlier ones in order to create more complex gameplay.
Star Wars Old Republic is heading that way with it's dynamic storyline generation.

Grinding really drives me nuts too, but over time things will improve.

Nutter

 

The truth is sooner or later all games will be MMO whether you want it or not. It's like 3D in mainstream gaming in the nineties. There will be various trype of MMO, not just traditional MMORPG that you used to see nowadays. There will be shooter MMOs, adventure MMOs, tactical MMOs, strategy MMOs, and so on. Some of them will be more biased towards player-to-player interaction, others will provide you with more AI/scripted stuff with minor interactions to other players, but all of them will be free and MMO.

 

Are you saying this because with MMO you completely eliminate piracy, or for other reasons?

 

"The truth is sooner or later all games will be MMO whether you want it or not."

No chance. The social deprived kids who stay in the house and play mmo's all day will grow up, get a job, etc, won't have time to play as much. And guess what, they'll want to play shorter, single player experiences, casual games, etc.

 

Don't know if you were joking or not, but that's what happened to me! I was playing EQ1-2, DAOC, and many other MMORPG until I was "at university" (doing nothing). Then when I got a job, went living alone, etc, I stopped playing them all.
Now I most play simple FPS/strategy games and I haven't tried any of those free MMO because I know I won't have time but also I lost completely any interest in them.

 

That's only becuase you think of MMO = WoW. In the future there will be plenty of casual MMOs less time consuming that will allow short play sessions, like our GUNROX for example.

 

There are lots of reasons why MMO has leverage over non-MMO games, but to name a few:
- It's free and you can't beat it. Even 60 minute trial can't compete with power of the free game.
- You control your customers right from the start (zero piracy as a bonus)
- Socialization. Even you are die hard fan of single player game, wouldn't it be great to see other people walking the city of your favorite Baldur's Gate and trading with you from time to time even if you dont interact with them in PvP or any other way?
- Way bigger revenue potential. People often spend way more than typical $19.95 or $59.95 on their favorite online game, cause they are not limited by fixed retail box price.
- Unlimited replay value - as you play with real people each game will never be the same. Take our GUNROX for example - we basically dont have content AT ALL. Out game is pure PvP tactics game on randomly generated arenas. There are no mobs, no quests, no exploration, pure PvP, but people player the hell out of it because each game is different. Like chess.

The list could go on and on but as you can see MMO games are evolutional form of entertainment and now it grew mature enough to merge with other game types and genres.

 

Interesting, but what about portals? People doing MMO won't be able to use them (or maybe is a bonus not being able to use them).
I remember you were quite disappointed recently by some portals and I think your MMO move was related.
Anyway I agree with some points, and I'd like to do a online game too, but not MMO: just "online-only" mode but that plays like a singleplayer game.

 

Yeah, we've kinda moved into MMO and never looked back. We've made a good dozen of various games back in the days, but none of them had such potential as GUNROX.

Yeah, apparently you can't go with portals but it's the same thing as selling direct vs go to portals. Since we've been doing quite good selling our downloadable games I dont threat neccessity of driving customers to our MMO game as an issue. Yeah, it's way harder comparing to just submiting your hidden object clone to the portals and waiting to cash in, but this way you keep your customers and that's worth a lot in the long term.

It's way harder to produce though. It was harder to produce and it was even harder to balance and polish, it took us about a year to develop and about an extra year to polish to a good state (that extra year was completely unexpected).

Jack, I think your decision to move online is good, especially considering that you do not relate on portals about your income. You must not overestimale your strength, so I think you might start with some kind of online-enabled single-player game. Make some logic on the server and you will get rid of piracy 100%. Add some minor interaction between players like ability to trade items or at least some competition table + add auto-update and you'll have a good start.

 

Oh don't worry, I know WELL my limits. I've never been a great programer
Indeed my plan was to do exactly what you're suggesting. Should be difficult already (for me), even if luckily using python you have a set of HTTP functions ready to use (just tried them, and they worked without problems).

 

You don't necessarily eliminate piracy with MMOs. There are pirate servers for some popular games, especially in China. However, it is a far more serious undertaking for a pirate to maintain a pirated server and grow a community of players than simply to crack a single-player PC game. So piracy has been a considerably smaller threat for boutique MMO operators, so far.

Also, if the MMO's original operator can amass a decent-sized community before the pirate servers start, and can continue to provide good service to that community, then network effects provide further resistance to the pirate. Players generally want to go where most of the other players already are.

 

Most of the pirate servers usually an issue for subscription-based MMOs. For free to play ones there is no reason to play something rough and unsupported when there is better and free alternative from official deveoper.

 

I can't imagine anyone actually playing a substantial amount of time on a pirate MMO server... MMOs are a HUGE investment of time in your character, and obviously you can't rely on Pirate Guy to keep his server up. If his server dies, so does your character and all the time you invested(wasted, heh.)

As a consumer, I hope piracy DOES drive the bulk of games to operate online. There's something magical about "being online." When my internet is down I feel dead to the world and demotivated even if I don't need anything from the net.

Likewise, single-player-completely offline games have felt a little dead to me ever since my EverQuest days. I hope single-player games reach a happy hybrid of being online/alive.

 

I'm also a believer that many more types of games will come out as MMOs, and the stereotypical MMO of today will be a minority in the MMO genre. If I had the skills and time, I'd be developing stuff in a somewhat MMO style instead of single player already.

WoW (and similar MMOs) don't exactly give me a headache, but I find them kind of boring. I had a lot more fun playing Everquest back in the day, due to the greater challenge, inherent social scene and the overall newness of playing my first MMO. It's hard to enjoy countless hours of really easy grinding.